“ Coaches who could have been hired before Charlie Weis”. Woulda, coulda, shoulda......not likely!
Replies to: “ Coaches who could have been hired before Charlie Weis”. Woulda, coulda, shoulda......not likely!
Re: “ Coaches who could have been hired before Charlie Weis”. Woulda, coulda, shoulda......not likely!
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As regards former HC Charles Weis...
He's been bashed ad nauseum. He defeated MSU, UCLA, in 2006 in what are ND's greatest games. (some of the finest) Former HC C. Weis came out of New England's Patriot NFL staff. (a fantastic resume to say the least)
Notre Dame was literally robbed in 2005 versus the USC Trojans and it killed Weis. IT KILLED HIM
Victory that afternoon in the high grass of South Bend likely would mean a trip to face Texas for the 2005 BCS Title. I firmly believe ND would have won it versus Vince Young's Longhorns. Weis would be respected currently instead of ridiculed.
Charles Weis was a victim of poor officiating in the NCAA CFB landscape. He was not unsuccessful due to intelligence as a issue.
Link: ND vs. UCLA - 2006 Notre Dame Football
Poor officiating? USC game killed him?
So I guess the poor officiating torpedoed his HC career at Kansas too. Weis' record at ND was 35-27 and his record at Kansas was 6-22.
And if one game in his first year killed his spirit, well, that hardly speaks highly of his resilience and constitution, does it? That same season after ND lost to MSU, he said they'd never lose again to MSU on his watch. His record against the Spartans? 2-3.
His decided schematic advantage was a lot of bullshit. He was a shit head coach and has always been a shit head coach.
Officiating? You bet!
2012 Miami, FL
The same support group that determined Tyler Eifert's catch, which would have placed ND inside the Alabama 20, was in fact not a catch even after Herbie said on air it, the incomplete catch ruling, would be reversed. This was in the first quarter before the home cooking could put the Catholics out of reach totally. Alabama knows what happens if Notre Dame is left hanging around in a title game. (1973-1974)
Link: 2013 BCS National Championship Game - #1 Notre Dame vs. #2 Alabama Highlights
So how does officiating play into the other 48 games Weis lost as a college coach?
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Weis looked great on paper. He had some obstacles not of his doing
I clearly remember there was no training table and the defense would lose an average of 15 lbs. as the season went on. You can't win like that.
He also (and the geeks can correct me on this) apparently didn't recruit for depth or in the right positions. But he was successful in everything he did before that. I believe had he been given a couple more years he would have turned it around.
Weak article, biggest mistake was Wadsworth (Davie) and the Kevin White mess
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To quote the great Orator of the East, AlbanyIRISH “You're kinda fucking dumb.”
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ND football died when we whiffed on Meyer.
Meyer was a mercenary. ND was his " dream job ", but he was more driven by success than idealism. It is so frustrating because he was such an elite coach that he could have won NCs at ND with lesser talent.
There never was a chance of hiring Urban Meyer
No chance at all. Anyone who honestly believes that there was any chance of his taking the ND job that year, is deluding himself. While we could have had a shot at him when he was coming out of Bowling Green, I doubt the fanbase would have wanted a coach of that low level of a school.
First, he knew that we were in for a future world of hurt, given the two worst recruiting classes in all of modern ND history (2004 and 2005, thanks to Ty WIllingham). While there was enough talent to do very well for 2005 and 2006, everyone knew that 2007 and 2008 would be down years.
Second, Florida had some truly excellent recruiting classes under Ron Zook. That roster was absolutely loaded with NFL starting talent, all the way throughout the entire two deep roster.
Meyer didn't want to take any time to rebuild, and instead, wanted quick results.
Finally, and most importantly, the University of Florida gave him complete control over the football program, essentially selling their souls to Mammon himself, just to gain quick results. The University of Notre Dame's Board of Trustees would never cede that kind of power, even to someone the likes of Nick Saban, Bob Stoops, etc.
Like it or not, Charlie Weis was the best man for the job at the time. He helped rebuild this program, at least giving Brian Kelly a well stocked roster of athletes in all of the classes, not just one or two. When Brian Kelly took over, there were far more 4 and 5 star players on this roster, as well as a good number of 3 star players who were definitely Division I material.
We didn't have a roster littered with Tregg Duerson-class players that nobody else wanted.
That being said...
Yes, Charlie Weis was a flawed coach, and simply wasn't ready for the job at the time. While he was able to learn on the job, ND simply isn't the place to do that, since we, the fanbase, are an impatient lot, and want our teams to be contenders every year.
There were several mistakes he could have avoided to buy him some more time, but the most glaring one that essentially killed that chance, was hiring Jon Tenuta, and letting him run that stupid "jailbreak blitz every down" defense.
Agree with quite a bitr of that. Weis was never cut out to be HC though...
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That's just not true. The Florida job is all that kept him away.
And frankly, had Ron Zook been fired at season's end rather than weeks earlier, we still would have had a decent shot. Florida fired Zook and started reaching out to potential replacements. Meyer was actually a few spots down the list of their desired choices, but they'd been in touch with his agent. Once their top choices had balked (primarily Shanahan), they started focusing more with Meyer, and made the formal, serious offer at virtually the same time N.D. did.
All of this gave Meyer time to consider the specifics of where Florida was as a program. Had Zook not been fired (or at least fired when Willingham was), Meyer would have been at Notre Dame. There is zero doubt.
It didn’t help when Lou was honest with him about his chances of winning.
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Don't forget Meyer had a young family and a wife who looked at recruiting for ND nationwide or
recruiting close to home for Florida, and she wanted to go to Florida.
That's not what Lou said.
Lou told him that if he was uncertain about the gig, he shouldn't take it, because Notre Dame requires an unwavering commitment.
Davie is the one that told him it was too hard to win there and that it was a "different" place than when he was coaching there on his staff.
Your spot on, it wasn't Lou
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Neither were positives.
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Yep. That's how it went down.
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Re: ND football died when we whiffed on Meyer.
I too believe he would have won championships at ND if he would have had the courage to take the job.
Urban Meyer: A talented scumbag
If he had character, he would have followed his heart and went to Notre Dame. He would have thrived; however, fame and fortune was too heady a wine for his ambition and greed.
He won 2 NCs at Florida but his players were always getting arrested and on the police blotter. No problem. It's OK, if you win.
He won another NC at OSU but slinked out of town under the cloud of looking the other way in regards to an abusive assistant coach.
As for his " dream school " Notre Dame, he regularly poached their recruits and assistant coaches.
If he were a man of character, he would have taken the ND job, and would now be a legend. But he sold his soul for evanescent fame and glory and lost his integrity in the process.
With his own jet.
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He wouldnt have won
3 NCs at Notre Dame and if you think he would have you are smoking something.
He may still wind up at USC and win #'s 4 and maybe #5
He has a very low moral compass....but knows how to coach, and players want to play for him.
ND under Meyer would have been a powerhouse.
If he won big at Bowling Green and Utah, he certainly would have done the same at ND.
Exactly, they play very similar schedules/opponents
Good comparison
Not with our 2007 and 2008 roster
Even Nick Saban would have needed some divine intervention to get us to a 0.500 season in 2007 with that awful roster.
To think of it this way, 2007 was the year that Willingham's pitiful class of 2004 were true seniors, and the 2005 class were true juniors. Most of those classes simply either faded away, dropped out, or transferred away, and if it weren't for some last second wrangling of a few decent players by Weis, that 2005 class could have been just as bad as 2004.
We're those the classes which had 1 OL between them?
Shockingly bad program management.
And yet, Urban Meyer might have schemed something for that. Say what you will, he knew how to maximize potential and then scheme for that potential. Bowling Green...Utah.... Holtz always had Urban on the worst unit, and they always became the best unit the following year.
Yes, under Willingham
Even though the 2004 class had two linemen (Incarnato and Kadous), both of them ended up transferring out (Incarnato to U. Mass, Kadous to Arizona).
While there were enough upper classmen to hold things down in 2005 and 2006, there simply weren't any true juniors or seniors ready to handle the burden in 2007. Going against polished rosters who had plenty of talent along the 2 deep was essentially the same as putting your JV team against the top notch varsity teams.
Charlie managed to pull off a pretty impressive feat, though, bringing in Paul Duncan and Mike Turkovich at the very last second into that class of 2005, both of whom served as capable starters. There weren't any 4 or 5 star linemen available out there during those waning moments, and he still managed to get in a couple of 3 star guys who turned into serviceable players for us.