Tom may prove to be a fine OC down the road.
But he is currently badly overmatched against top levels teams.
His resume is a joke compared to:
tosu-----Kevin Williams
Clemson----Tony Elliot
Bama---Bill O'Brien
I wish Tom well. But I think we are still at a disadvantage with him leading the O.
Remember he has to manage the other O coaches. IMHO, He's just too green to do that.
His ability to fall upwards is an indictment on Kelly.
by the time he's their age. Anything other than the facts that exist during those periods would be pure speculation.
Bama, Clemson and tosu were all top 11 offenses. We were down around 30.
That was reflected in the CFP,
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I mean he did the impossible in the context of ND last 20 years.
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At Stanford or Michigan or the like.
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At Clemson since 2011. Won the Broyles. Versus rees who has done exactly what and has no Broyles.
Before that, he had short stints as WR coach at two small programs (SC State/Furman). He had no HC or OC experience before getting the OC thumbs up from Dabo. That just doesn't fit the narrative of elite programs hiring coordinators with lots of high-level experience, like O'Brien and Wilson, which was the point of your comment. There is no reason to twist this around . . . Elliot was a completely different type hire than O'Brien and Wilson . . . and is much more akin to the Rees situation than to the Bama or OSU guys. The fact that Elliot turned out to be a great OC doesn't change the fact that he was of a different lineage than the highly experienced hires. If Rees turns out to be a savant, Broyles Award winner, and NC coordinator, like Elliot, it won't change the fact that he had little high-level experience before getting the OC job, like Elliot. If Rees falls on his face, we'll probably both agree that he was in over his head. On that, yeah . . .we wait and see.
rees was 27.
Again, all the X’s and O’s in the world can’t teach you to lead an O staff with older coaches.
IMHO he has no management experience.
You are twisting the pretzel logic rather than own up. You didn’t say anything about “age” originally. But, okay, let’s play this dishonest game. Elliot was ONLY 37 when he got the job, closer in age to Rees than O’Brien (51) or Wilson (58). As if that was ever the issue. This is actually kind of silly. You’d rather dig in and pretend Elliot fits the model you put out than acknowledge the obvious: when Elliot got the Clemson OC job, his RESUME was MUCH more similar to Rees than the other two guys you mentioned when they got the Bama and OSU OC jobs. And it isn’t really close. You are better than this.
rees resume is not comparable to Elliot.
rees has no experience managing a staff.
You can beat this thing to death if you like.
I think it is smarter to agree to disagree.
Cheers .
But I get it. In the social media age, it is all about "winning the argument" rather than admitting a flaw in it.
Elliot had a couple of years each as WR coach at two very small programs before going to Clemson, where he served as RB coach for three years before being promoted. Rees spent a couple of years at Northwestern and with the Chargers in the NFL before going back to ND to be QB coach for three years before getting promoted. Elliot is FAR MORE COMPARABLE to Rees than to your other examples of O'Brien and Wilson. It isn't disputable.
I guess you need this for some reason, so knock yourself out. I'm not here to have an open forum type discussion on the football board. I like talking honestly with people about ND football. Thankfully there is some of that here still.
“It isn’t disputable”? What a proclamation.
We disagree. Let it go.
If you are that dismayed, respond only to posters who agree with you. They’re the best posters on the board, right?
You are like every single internet cliché rolled into one.
Let's try this: You did it! You made great argument! Seamless! Your logic is flawless! You win! You're a winner! {virtual pat on the head}
Is that enough affirmation for ya?
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It's your argument that he's too young, despite there being no evidence this has held him back and plenty of contrary coaching successes, like Joe Brady.
And Knute Rockne, who was a ND assistant for 3 years before taking over as HC.
Ageism goes both ways. Professionals care less about age, and even credentials. It's about results. PPG rankings are useful, but not the only argument. The fact is, Rees, in his first season as OC, led an offense that won all regular season games, played a credible run scheme, and fit perfectly with the starting QB strengths.
As a former military officer and combat veteran, I can tell you 28 years old is plenty old enough to lead young men and old. You're either capable or not. A good leader or not.
with around college football and the NFL his whole life.
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most coaches will just throw out the same clichés you hear analysts throw out during broadcasts, like "rely on the run", "ability to throw the ball", single reads, efficiency
I've listened to guys like Norm Chow starting way back, Paul Chryst, Mike Elko, Chris Petersen, they describe things much differently, like areas instead of individuals
Elliott and Wilson seem to rely on their talent advantage from their interviews
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ND dominated teams they should, and were 1-2 against those with more talent. Go figure.
ND isn't pulling former NFL HCs and CFB Power 5 head coaches like Bill O'Brian. Nobody else besides Saban is, not even Clemson/OSU. It's a coaching rehabilitation pipeline that can't be duplicated.
Tony Eliot was a former Clemson player who previously coached at the Football Powerhouse Extraordinaire Furman. Bad example on your part.
Kevin Wilson is probably your best example. Former Oklahoma OC who worked his way up with that team, was HC at Indiana, and then joined Ohio State after getting fired as Co-OC.
Let's see if he can pull in good recruits, but even that may not be that indicated of him vs. the state of the program. And coach them up. He had pretty excellent returns for a 1st year OC, and young coaches and coordinators are proving across the NFL that experience may be over-rated by owners and ADs.
*Chip Long had some high performing offenses but obviously caused a lot of bad blood.
Elliot has been at Clemson since 2011. He's paid his dues. He won The Broyles.
rees is 28 years old.
He's not proven himself as an exceptional leader at any level.
I would prefer he doesn't learn on the job.
IMHO he is green.
And that's Rees played the game at QB, often changing plays at the line of scrimmage. So basically was his own offensive coordinator many times.
He's doing fine. He'll do even better in 2021. This team could very well average over 40 per game this fall.
Elliot was RB coach at Clemson three years before becoming Co-OC. Rees was QB coach at ND for three years before becoming OC. Elliot spent a couple of years each at SC State and Furman as WR coach before going to Clemson. Rees spent one year each with Northwestern and the SD Chargers in the NFL before becoming QB coach at ND. Again, I get your point here and it has some merit. But the Elliot comp actually shows that hiring a guy with a lot of experience isn't the only way to go (assuming we agree that Elliot is a top OC).
I do not intend to be flippant. Just don't think rees has the maturity to lead an ace offensive staff. Time will tell.
Thoughts?
Clemson went in an unorthodox direction with Elliot. He didn't have the "resume" that guys like O'Brien (Bama) and Wilson (OSU) have. He had little experience before coming to Clemson, and only had three years as a RB coach at Clemson. Despite his lack of top-level experience, he turned out to be a home-run hire as OC.
You gave three examples. Elliot was one of them. He doesn't fit the "hired because of a great resume" model. Does that mean Rees will win a Broyles Award? No. Of course not. It just means "hired because of a great resume" doesn't appear to be the only model, even for the likes of elite Clemson.
I get what you are saying, though. Of course, could have made a similar argument about Clark Lea (many did actually). I'm not sure what to make of Rees overall, but I definitely like his approach better than Long's.
rees may prove me wrong. I just thought that was a time to go big.
And ND needs a Stand alone QB Coach /Consultant.
No time to get cheap and easy.
Get the best or trail the rest.
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We beat up the inferior teams, and even pulled off an upset of Clemson, which was actually quite remarkable, thanks to the nearly perfect offensive line play.
A depleted receiving corp, combined with injuries to the offensive line, basically put us in a very bad position before the postseason even started.
We didn't have the talent or depth available to us that the big three had. Our best receivers were either suspended (Austin), in the dog house (Johnson), or injured (Lenzy, Keys). That, plus our QB didn't have a good long ball at all. At best, about 2/3rd's of the offensive playbook was available. Short and medium range passing were fine, QB runs were excellent, and the combination of the two opened up running lanes for Kyren Williams to have a very nice season. This was a far cry from 2013, when Rees himself was manning the QB spot, where there was no QB running threat, no medium or long range passing threats, and we were relegated to dinking and dunking away at the opposition.
This coming year will be the true test of what Rees can do. Regardless of whether Coan or Buchner starts, the QB position will have someone who can throw a better long ball, along with a full complement of quality receivers. If Rees keeps calling the dink and dunk offense, then I'll be definitely calling for his removal (for what good it does...), since the long ball needs to have at least a reasonable presence in order to truly spread the field vertically.
I doubt he's that foolish, though, since he knows how to play to our strengths, and he's not inept.
Still, I really think we could have gotten someone better from the start, though.
before the Pitt game and was lost for the season. (Link below) As for Johnson, I don't know if I'd say he was in the "doghouse" given his playing time was restricted because of difficulties adjusting to the academic rigors of ND.
Link: Notre Dame Loses WR Kevin Austin for the Season
Regardless of the reason, though, he still wasn't available to us this year. He could have single-handedly made a significant difference in at least presenting us with a genuine vertical threat.
It might be as simple as ND "went cheap." If so, hope ND gets lucky with Rees. My only point about Elliot is that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and "most experienced" isn't always the best hire (Lea as exhibit 1). I kind of like what Rees has done so far, certainly compared to the O under Long/Kelly. I hope that he is a "rising star," which I've come to believe was the case with Clark Lea. But it all remains to be seen. I might be here a year from now bitching about how over his head Rees turned out to be.