remember it was over 30 years ago. So regardless what happens this year when will ND be considered the best or among the best team in the country. Would welcome your comments.
acknowledged that. First team in forever to hold Alabama below 35 points in 2020. Might have been the second best team in the country each year. Neither were they close to the #1 team. But no one else was in either year. But ND was certainly amongst the best in those two years.
Unfortunately, two hiccups along the way. The first was a Mike Miller fumble during Michigan that ended up in a tie. The second was against Bill Walsh's finest moment in college football, and yes, that was an excellent Stanford team.
9 times out of 10, we win that game easily, but alas, The Genius was there for the 10th time. I'd say that the big play that could have happened, was during the safety. We could have certainly recovered that ball for a TD, but alas, that didn't happen.
Even most of the die-hard Crimson Tide fans would acknowledge that we would have soundly beaten that championship team in the Sugar Bowl if it weren't for those mishaps. We were playing excellent football on both the offensive and defensive sides of the ball. Even the backups were NFL caliber.
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I think ND moved up to #2 having just beaten #1. At that time, they were considered by everyone to be "among the best".
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better than the rest.
quality teams and ND just doesn’t strike fear or even doubt in the hearts of solid teams.
not accurate besides the fact that no one really proved they were better than we were excluding the top 3. As far as 2018 if I recall we beat a fair amount of ranked teams and were highly thought of because of that.
make the stats read any number of ways; the proof is on the field. ND has 3 wins against top 10 teams under Kelly and one of those was offset just weeks later in the ACC championship game.
The discussion was literally "strength of schedule." YOU brought "weak schedule" into a larger discussion.
the wins of teams they've played. Beating a good group of 5 team actually helps SOS, but we all know group of 5 wins aren't as good as power 5 wins. Likewise, beating a power 5 team that has a nice record but doesn't win a division or a conference also is nice.
By way of example, let's take Alabama. Alabama's SOS isn't going to be as strong because the various SEC teams beat up on each other. Yet, everyone accepts that the 2nd or 3rd SEC team that might have 3 or 4 losses is on par with the runner up in the Big 10, Big 12 and Pac 12. That's what I mean when I say I can make the stats say anything I want. You interpret it as gospel rather than really thinking about what goes into the metric.
I "interpret" what as "gospel?" In case you didn't notice, I was not at all participating in your little argument with Theismancarr. No dog in the fight. He had mentioned that ND's schedule was "good enough" for the committee both years in question. I simply linked to some specific information regarding SOS. I made no commentary with regard to it. Made no argument. Just provided some information. I certainly didn't promote it as "gospel." Somehow, though, you managed to see it that way. Which leaves me shaking my head.
putting in a little more effort and explain yourself.
Your personal opinion does not change that fact. Also, your statement about not striking doubt in any solid team is baseless and almost certainly incorrect. You have no objectivity.
s of people didn't think ND deserved to be in the playoffs last year; many thought A&M deserved ND's spot.
ND haters? In 2018 and 2020 we were in the Top 4 in the CFB rankings and Top 5 in the final AP. In 2012 we were #1 in the BCS rankings and Top 4 in the final AP.
The question is about being considered "among the best". If you don't think being considered among the Top 5 as among the best, we could debate that. But, objectively we were in the Top 5 all three of those years.
Just because some supposed group of "many" people ran their mouths about ND not being in CFP isn't grounds for a rational debate.
ults, and ND hasn't done well against top 10 competition in nearly 20 years.
I can certainly agree with that. With the caveat that MAYBE we were worthy in '98 and '05. Maybe. The performances in the bowls make me question that though. I'll leave the door open a crack since we conceivably would have played better if a NC were on the line.
to a pair of excellent #1 teams in the semis who then crushed the opposition by even more in the finals.
We have developed players well, and now the recruiting synergy at ND is exploding to the upside.
Gotta keep knocking at the door, and hopefully a top QB and skill position speed will get us over the top.
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What does it mean to be "among the best," and assuming we are metaphysical realists regarding this distinction and can determine from a God's point of view when ND was last among the best, is that determinative or is it trumped by "consideration"? For example, if the Playoff Committee ranked ND among the top 4 in its final rankings and, therefore, seemingly considered ND to be among the best, does that satisfy being considered among the best if ND "really" (God's eye point of view) wasn't?
On the other hand, if we discount the God's eye point of view because we're not NDN board ops and don't have the faculty to know what it is, then we're left with only "consideration", in which case CC72 provides a historical limit with the Playoff Committee's inclusion of ND in its final four last year. On the other hand, if we're talking DonMiller-consideration, that limit would be now ... and now ... and now.... That is, whose consideration is worthy of consideration? Is it possible to be a composite "considered among the best" even if the consideration of those whose consideration is worthy of consideration does not include ND among the best, like a composite 5-star who's not ranked as a 5-star by any individual ranking service?
My head is hurting. Help us PBHangingChad, help us.
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It's been longer since they won a national championship.
If you truly think it's been 30 years since we've been considered among the best then that must be what you're going by.
If you are in a national championship game like in 2012, or made the 4 team playoff like 2018 or 2020, you are among the best.
They got outcoached and outclassed in those games, but it didn't mean they weren't considered to be among the best programs in the country.
I'd like a national championship as well, and I'm not convinced Kelly can do it. But there's no need to over exaggerate it.
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There were the first three and everyone else. We were the best of everyone else. Bama smoked everyone.
This year is even wackier. Very few truly elite teams. Maybe less than 3 this year.
A&M, Oklahoma, Georgia.
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The question was who was better. The standard is now "demonstrably better".
I live in SEC land, I heard all the crap from A&M and UGA fans. A&M was not definitively better than us, and neither was Georgia.
We were still considered by people to be among the best since they put us in the playoff, which was his question.
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always are more prepared for the playoffs but though it isn't much to brag about we played Clemson and Alabama as tough as the teams they beat in the finals. The very solid win over a highly respected North Carolina team on the road was an excellent win in a game many thought we would lose. In the bowl game, only a freak play allowed Texas A&M to beat North Carolina the same team that lost two of the star players that opted out of playing in their bowl game.
teams and well coached. I guess that is among the best.
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anyone in playoffs in 2020.
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We beat Clemson. We were considered to be among the best in the country. It was less than just one year ago.
Boom.
Among the best and yet weeks later they destroyed us. Which is why most of the country is sick of our getting a CFP slot and then crapping the bed so they get to say told you so.
Once again, he has (3) wins against top ten teams?
Is that being amongst the best?
Apparently it is.
The college football preseason edition. People really thought Charlie Weis was getting ND back to the top. Funny how that turned out. I guess before the NC game in '12 too maybe -- though I think many thought ND was outclassed by Alabama going into that one.
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recruiting, but he was enamored with stars rather than building a 2 deep.
For that matter, we barely had a 1 deep from 2005-2008.
Ty Willingham's ineptitude when it came to recruiting for the class of 2004 and 2005 would have made it impossible for even Nick Saban to get a winning season out of 2007.
He never was what he promised. Hope he sends a Christmas card thanking Tom Brady every year
line struggled with run blocking. His teams executed the screen pass as well as anyone at that time. He even called it back to back sometimes and it was a great play for us. Maybe if Tyrone hadn't convinced Tuck to not play his senior year( he was only a 4th round pick) 2005 would have been different against both MSU and USC and then who knows where we would have played our bowl game. Every time we got close against OSU in 2005 the defense would allow a long score.