UHND.com - Notre Dame Football, Basketball, & Recruiting

Because last year's guy was Marcus Freeman and I don't see the new guy being as good at it as he was.

Also, If given the choice between Elston and Washington, I would take Elston.

I also am not banking on an upgrade at RB.

I agree that WR, OL, and ST are significant upgrades.

Is the key. I’m most curious to see if Washington keeps the Elston commits and possibly flips others

Except for Keeley, who is committed to ND. I'm hoping we hear something from him and Vernon solidifying their commitments. That might not come until the new DC is announced though.

I am very interested to see if he can expand the board. There have to be some tOSU targets he has a relationship with that we weren't really in on.

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Link: https://amp.freep.com/amp/6554330001

I want to see Freeman and Washington going after top 100 guys. That is what is going to take ND to championship level. Not more of the same.

That's not to say that this kid isn't a quality prospect. He looks like he is. Just not a front-line prospect.

He's a highly rated recruit at a position ND hasn't stocked in the last three recruiting cycles: DT. Keanaaina '20, Rubio in '21, and nobody in '22. Unless I'm forgetting somebody. Mills was potentially an interior guy, but he has been moved out to SDE. ND has big DEs who could grow into interior guys. But there is no reason not to recruit guys to play NT or DT. Starlings seems to fit the bill.

Unless they are being added as depth, players like Starling don't fit the bill.

“Unless they are being added for depth.” Depth is an important part of recruiting. You have to fill out your roster. If ND got Starlings (or a recruit like him), and he did nothing more than provide quality depth in his career — that has real value. But beyond that, “elite talent” doesn’t perfectly correlate with “elite recruits.” Lots of 4* recruits — like Starlings — turn out to be elite players (or at least quality starters)

Every great recruiting class has a number of guys exactly like Starlings. Bama and Georgia had 60 and 47 4* players on their respective rosters this year. Texas A&M’s #1 recruiting class this year contains 8 players with lower 247 ratings than Starlings, including a DL. Sure, ND needs to land guys like Keeley too. But nobody — not even Saban, Smart, and Fisher — ONLY recruits 5* (or top 150) guys. Starlings is absolutely in line with what we see on elite rosters all the time. Probably why he currently holds offers from Georgia and A&M. And, again, Starlings would fit a specific need for ND (big-bodied interior DL). Like “depth” in general, filling specific needs is an important part of recruiting.

All I'm saying is that if Freeman is looking to flip commits, that I want to see him going after the top guys.

Of course, we should take a guy like Starling, but they aren't what is going to take our classes to the next level. Those are the recruits that you generally want to fill out a class with quality depth.

And FWIW, Starling isn't committed anywhere either so he wouldn't be a "flip" (which was Lance's original question).

All I intended to add to the discussion was that I’d take Starlings as a recruit without hesitation.

I do disagree a bit with your take on Starlings, though, who is class of ‘23. A 4* 300+ pound interior DL with his composite ranking (.9169) and offer list — I think that’s better than a guy you just want to “fill out a class.” He’s higher rated than Gobaira, Zeigler, Morrison, Staes, and a number of other members of ND’s ‘22 class. And at a position of need. Plus, as I mentioned, many guys who aren’t 5*s or top 150 players approach their ceilings and become stars anyway. Georgia’s 1st team AA DL Jordan Davis was a big-bodied 3* recruit (.8858 composite rating/#424 nationally) who anchored a NC defense. I’d be thrilled to get a guy like Starlings. Those guys can be the guys to help take a team “to the next level.”

If Starlings does do it for you, you might be disappointed by this news: According to Tom Loy, ND is currently pushing hard for uncommitted ‘22 RB Andrew Paul, who was offered by ND last week. He’s a 3* with a composite ranking of #1212 nationally (per 247) and a composite rating of .8466 (also per 247). I like him, but I think some here will be underwhelmed.

The RB room is thinner than some people would like to think. He would add some much needed depth. And lower ranked recruits can absolutely exceed rankings. They just tend to be projects.

That being said, a year ago I wouldn't have thought it a great idea to have him in your Top 5 targets with guys like Singleton, Sawchuck and Hayden.

The more I think about Paul, the more sense it makes. I like that he appears be a "stout" type. 5-11 220 is his listing.

I’m hoping Heistand recruits better than he did during his first stint with the Irish.

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Overall, no one has any idea whether this new staff, including Heistand, will be better/the same/worse than the folks they replaced.

I get that opinions are opinions, but this hand-wringing over who is, and who isn't getting hired, before any of them have even drawn a pay check is just bizarro.

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Boards exist PRECISELY to talk about things like who is and who isn't getting hired. What the hell is even the point of a board if that's not what we're doing?

led some elite squads

Link: https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/coach/al-washington/

recruiting has changed A LOT since he was last here. Way more people can do the work so it is a lesser concern given the way that position recruits itself at ND and given that what Heistand will have to do (meet with the recruits and parents when the time comes) he is supposedly excellent at.

Think back on the beginning of this season and the personnel SNAFU's on the OL. How much of what we went through this year was due to the incredible bungling of the OL? Now we have one of the best...maybe ever. Huge upgrade in one of our greatest areas of strength.

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I don't know why but any time there have been multiple assistant coach changes they do it this way.

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if ND hasn't announced Stuckey?

Personally, I don't care which got announced first since the entire ND beat has said that ND picked Stuckey over all other candidates after being blown away on the interview.

The UW fans just want a win over Notre Dame because that program has won anything since Peterson left. In terms how news broke though, the Stuckey news was definitely first and then the Shepard news followed.

Yeah I get that, but my point wasn't specifically on the order of events, don't care enough to argue that one.. was just using it as example to try and wrap my head around the non announcement of (some?) hires.

Confuses me that it seems Laurinaitis, the special teams guy and Stuckey were put out as done deals quickly, while the HH hire rumor just keeps lurking in the shadows...guess I still have PTSD from being told we were hiring Urban then seeing the jolly fat man announced. Seems like the sooner the better would be the stance on making these hires official so they can get out there and get to work.

.. just my two cents.

Washington's impact.

Daelin Hayes, Ade Ogundeji, Julian Okwara, Khalid Kareem, Jerry Tillery, Isaiah Foskey, Jayson Ademiola

That's seven guys that were drafted or will be drafted that have played for Elston in his current stint on the DL. Only Daelin Hayes and Tillery were elite recruits...and that was an LB and OL, respectively (neither were projected as DL by the recruiting services).

They were top 250 guys who were recruited by a lot of big-time programs. Hell, Kareem was an Alabama commit at one point.

Keep in mind that players ranked past No. 224 are the equivalent of an undrafted free agent.

Foskey was 211, the equivalent of a 7th round pick.

Elston has also had no busts.

Contrast that with production from the back end of the defense: Houston Griffith was ranked 70th overall, but won't be drafted. Shayne Simon ranked 90th and won't be drafted. Jack Lamb was ranked 99th and won't be drafted. Derrick Allen was 106 and won't be drafted. Litchfield Ajavon was ranked 230 and never played a snap. Isaiah Rutherford was ranked 208 and was a bust.

There's no doubt that Elston has been the best developer of talent on the defensive staff and this 5 year run was absolutely the result of great defense, and mostly DL play. The offense has been average at best.

time?

Coach Matt Balis changed a lot around ND and one thing that changed was the development and play of the DL. Elston never did that and it never happened before Balis arrived.

If Washington is the superior recruiter, then it is an upgrade. Get the best dudes you can and Balis will build the culture and develop them to their max.

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However, that defense was also extremely lucky at times, and to call it the best defense ever is too much of a stretch. We got badly exposed against Alabama.

If anything, it reminded me of the 2002 defense where the Luck of the Irish was highly present, and we got badly exposed against USC, and to a lesser extent, NC State.

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including running over our DL to the tune of 265 yards rushing at 6 yards per attempt.

It was around that time I was seriously wondering if ND would ever have a tough DL again...whether it was even possible. None of that changed until Balis showed up.