Rees deserves more heat for poor QB recruiting than game plans. Pyne blew 2 or 3 easy scores on
throws to Lenzy, Merriweather and Styles.
Replies to: Rees deserves more heat for poor QB recruiting than game plans. Pyne blew 2 or 3 easy scores on
That is my main beef with him. He can't recruit a decent QB which is by far ND's main problem.
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This is ridiculous, ND has had more talent at the QB position, since 2010, than most programs.
The problem is, it's a QB centric system that doesn't develop QB's and often forces them to do things they're not good at.
Every QB that's played at ND since 2010 has gotten worse the more they played. Even Ian Book struggled with indecisiveness and not seeing guys wide open in 2020. His playmaking ability, once the called play broke down, is what bailed ND out again and again that year. Deshone Kizer had no clue what he was supposed to be doing with the ball half the time in 2016. Did he all of a sudden become a talentless ass clown? You give Urban Meyer a Brandon Wimbush and he's a Heisman trophy candidate just like Tim Tebow, because his coach doesn't force him to do things he's not good at and doesn't give two shits about his throwing mechanics.
QB talent is not, nor has it been the problem since 2010. There have been kids with a fraction of the talent ND QB's have had playing great football every Saturday since 2010. They've just had better coaches that know how to utilize their assets while minimizing their faults. With BK and now TR, it's just install the system, run the system. QB struggles with touch passes? Doesn't matter, keep calling plays that require the QB putting touch on the ball because that's what the system demands.
If TR/BK had Aaron Rodgers at ND he would be a terrible QB and some of you would be screaming for the more talented back-up.
I should qualify this by saying that talent was a problem when TR was QB.
100%
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This is all anyone needs to know about the QB position at ND. Totally agree!!
Posted at 10:18 pm on Oct 19, 2022
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Rees deserves a ton of heat
Posted at 11:37 pm on Oct 18, 2022
How many highly rated HS quarterbacks have failed at ND over the last 10 years. What’s the common denominator? Kelly and/or Rees. They couldn’t/can’t develop quarterbacks.
Pyne is an average QB, on a good day.
He doesn't have the arm strength to make accurate mid and long range passes.
Pyne was a 4 Star Elite 11 QB
With proper development, he would be good enough to win. Yes, Pyne has his limitations as does every player. Rees needs to recruit better and develop better...no different than his former boss. ND has had plenty of talented QB's come in and not succeed. I don't believe for a minute that every talented QB that came here under Kelly/Rees were simply busts. If so, ND has the worst luck when it comes to the QB position
So was Winbush.
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And a bad QB on an average day
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He is more than good enough to win all the games so far with proper coaching and gameplans.
Posted at 11:26 pm on Oct 18, 2022
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How many QBs is he better than, vs. the teams we have played so far ?
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Very Good Question....I hesitate to give the answer
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See below. Pyne is rated better than 3 of the 5.
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Doesn't hold water. Per ESPN QBR, Pyne is 28th out of 121 putting him inside the top 25% of college
QBs. Just as a measuring stick Phil Jurkovec is #91.
Gotta start looking at the actual truth. Not what you wish that it was.
Link: https://www.espn.com/college-football/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc
Cal's QB, Stanford's QB, Marshall's QB. Only BYU (by 8 spots) and UNC's are better. Oddly enough the
two teams he beat and looked the best when there was a GAME PLAN that actually made sense.
Game plans suck! QB coaching sucks and has sucked. Pyne is good enough.
Posted at 1:40 am on Oct 19, 2022
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Pyne isn't good enough.
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With all do respect. He's ranked 28th. That's a lot better than what your eyes are seeing and your
mind is remembering.
Explain how Pyne is 3-0 going into Stanford but not good enough?!
Posted at 3:18 pm on Oct 19, 2022
He played poorly. I never said he didn't. Stanford isn't good. Without the overturned TD, ND wins even with a poor performance by Pyne. But the tone starts with the game plan and it was clearly BAD!
For some reason when I say "Pyne is good enough", the Pyne haters hear me say "Pyne is all world and will win a Heisman". Someone can be good enough and still not be ready to lead a team to a championship.
Pyne is good enough as a game manager
He can do a decent job if we have a running game that's knocking the opposing defense back 5 yards. The play action passing game works nicely after being setup properly.
Unfortunately, against Stanford, we didn't utilize our running game with quickly developing, fast hitting straight ahead runs. Instead, those delayed draw handoffs from the shotgun or pistol kept getting stuffed against 8 or 9 man fronts. The defenses weren't getting fooled by the play action, and one of the worst defenses in the FBS shut down our offense.
We could have run against that 8 or 9 man front, if we would have used the straight ahead runs by Estime, and would have worn them down badly.
I put the blame for the Stanford fiasco squarely on Rees.
However, regarding Drew Pyne, he's not good enough to be a game changer that can make up for the shortcomings of Tommy Rees, especially given that he hasn't shown good field vision (not even seeing many open receivers), and that his arm is barely strong enough to make a reasonably adequate medium range pass. While it's better than what Tommy Rees could do, that's not very encouraging.
The way I see it, he looks more like Ian Book, with a weaker arm and worse field vision (especially locking onto only one receiver), along with much less experience.
Or, he's more like Tommy Rees with some mobility and a bit stronger of an arm, but less experience, worse field vision, and not very good at making pass protection audibles. There are many times a defense would tip their hand and shift early, and he wouldn't make a pass blocking audible even with 10 seconds left on the play clock.
I understand that barring some abilities of Steve Angeli that we haven't seen yet, Pyne's the best (and only) option we have. It's critical for the offensive coordinator to play smart and minimize Pyne's weaknesses, instead of trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
Bout the size of it. No reason that game should have been lost even with Pyne.
My biggest beef being there is that he just didn’t go through his progressions. With a stacked box there were open receivers and he had time.
The scheme was awful and Pyne had a bad day. That equals being shut down by the number 97 defense in FBS which hadn’t beaten another FBS team in 11 games.
You aren’t wrong. But he also isn’t a difference maker that you need to step up against better
teams. He was obviously good enough to beat the Trees. He just beat a much better BYU team. But he played really poorly and the scheme was awful.
I never said he was a difference maker. I concede he isn't.
Posted at 3:09 pm on Oct 19, 2022
But he is good enough when given a complimentary game plan to his and the teams skills.
Biggest flaw...
If he were good enough, he would have seen the open receivers, and there were all too many occasions where he didn't even look for Styles or other receivers, right as they were breaking wide open. He was so locked into Mayer, that he was all but blind to the others.
Right away, that would have made the difference in the Stanford game. While there was plenty of blame to go around (not kicking the field goal, blown defensive assignments, Estime's fumble), the ability of a QB to read multiple receivers and go through the progression, instead of locking onto one receiver, would have easily made this game a blowout in our favor.
Maybe that flaw comes from the lack of adequate coaching by Rees, since he was essentially spoiled by having two 5th year veterans during the last two years (Book and Coan) who could go through those progressions on their own.
This is 100% true. One of the few advantages of being there is you can see stuff like that.
He was laser locked on Big Mike. He had time and there were guys open, sometimes behind the D.
That being said, the scheme also totally blew balls. No Estime. Sending the small back, Tyree repeatedly through the stopped up A gap. No misdirection. This was the 97th ranked D that hadn’t beaten an FBS team in 11 games. I think Pyne can win if you don’t put it all on him. Stanford said you are gonna have to beat us. He’s not that kind of guy. They need to design a simple O scheme that gives him a chance.
I agree with this. But this performance doesn't erase what he did the previous 3 games.
Posted at 3:34 pm on Oct 19, 2022
Pyne isn't going to carry a team. Maybe he develops into that but I wouldn't hold my breath as there is zero evidence that Rees can develop a QB. Pyne requires a proper game plan that allows his strengths to shine and limits his ability to make mistakes. I agree with Driskell as he asserts that he thinks Rees gave Pyne too much after seeing him succeed for 3 games. It's still really early in his career and Rees should know this. This is where Rees fails. Rees is smart and wants people to see that and apparently thinks his QBs should be ready for all of it even when they aren't.
None of this means Pyne isn't good enough.
He is good enough to win sometimes if things are set up properly for him and he’s having a good day.
Neither of these things happened on Saturday.
Is he good enough to beat top teams? I will be cheering for him to do so, but am doubtful.
Sad thing is despite a shitty Rees scheme, he still had plenty of chances to toast a shitty D, and didn’t get it done.
It was frustrating to watch him continually laser locking on Mayer.
You seem to forget that Pyne had a TD pass overturned as well.
Posted at 12:15 pm on Oct 19, 2022
Why no Estime until late in the game? Check out the counter runs into loaded boxes. There is a lot to look at scheme-wise that put the TEAM at a disadvantage.
There is still one common denominator from the previous coaching staff and that's Rees. A previous coaching staff that over 10 years had the same problems with many different classes of players. WR never got developed. QB never got developed. Better offensive talent sat on the bench. We have seen the same problems over many years. That isn't a player problem .... it's a coach problem.
Let's just hope Freeman doesn't allow Rees to sink the ship.
He also had an int erased against Marshall, which you and Old Guy said means it doesn’t count
against him in evaluating performance.
He's 3-1, and the 1 was digging out of someone elses hole. Let's only focus on the 1. Makes sense
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LOL. His Marshall appearance is hardly a measuring stick of how good he is. But you are right ..
Posted at 3:11 pm on Oct 19, 2022
it happened. I never said it didn't.
And anyone who puts any blame on the defense just doesn't know football. They gave up 16 pts.
Posted at 12:11 pm on Oct 19, 2022
16 points in modern college football is like a shutout.
They don’t give up a lot of points, but they have some glaring flaws. Too many 3rd downs given up,
they stay on the field too long, and their tackling has been poor too many times. They aren’t the primary problem but haven’t been elite either.
Serious ? When was the last time anything re: ND football was elite? Gotta start where you are.
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Your last sentence is my point. QBs this year were starting their very first games in college.
Posted at 12:08 pm on Oct 19, 2022
Coan wasn't developed by Rees.
Book got 3 years to grow and learn.
Outside of those 2, what quarterbacks came into the Kelly/Rees system and got better?
It's still early for Pyne, and Buchner, but Rees isn't helping his QBs with his system. I think there is plenty of evidence from the past 10 years on that.
And the biggest point of all ... the board hated on Pyne so hard then ND won 3 in a row. After that the board was like "Pyne is pretty good". Now, one bad game and Pyne sucks. This board is bi-polar.
Bingo
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Really? Was told here he has "it"...and that the top programs would have recognized he has "it"...
...long ago.
Re: Pyne is an average QB, on a good day.
He's a average slightly better than average QB but thats not Championship caliber...Plain and simple
Exactly. He was a back up to another mediocre QB for a reason. Still, no reason he couldn’t
and shouldn’t have lit up an awful Trees D.
Most QB's would have been mediocre with the awful line play in the first two games.
No argument here, though on Pyne's inability to seize command of the game against Stanford. He kept locking his eyes onto the primary receiver, and wouldn't go through his progressions.
I lost count of the number of times he had Styles and Merriweather breaking open, and didn't look for them.
agree...esp when he is on the move.
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^^^THIS^^^ Exactly. Spot on.
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If only we were an average football team most days?
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Lenzy highly overrated, Tyree was lined up wrong, and that
Cost them a TD, Pyne is not the only problem
I read where somebody else screwed up lining up. So who was it really? I think Pyne is serviceable
but I knew he would help cost us a game we should not have lost.
A track guy at best.
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Will Tobias see the field this weekend or does he get sent to the doghouse for some unknown reason?
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Until we see otherwise, I expect the ND way. Maybe a play or two but mostly just the bench. At best
a "decoy". You know, to outsmart them and stuff!
One nice play, hardly Jerry Rice material yet
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Re: One nice play, hardly Jerry Rice material yet
I agree with that BUT, he's the only receiver we have that just ran past a DB not once, but twice in the same quarter. You might have to go back years to duplicate that.
Till he does it consistently
Plenty of opposing wide receivers run behind our DBs due to crappy coverage by our incompetent DBs…not because they’re Jerry Rice
Chase Claypool
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