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Home > Forums > Football Message Board
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Be careful what you wish for in Sam Hartman, an INT machine

Author: MarkHarman (7241 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:15 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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In 2021 he was 2nd in the nation in the number of interceptions thrown with 14. This past year he was 8th with 12 thrown.

Under some logic I've seen used here, we need to go to the QB portal every year. I agree with Mike Goolsby 100%. Tyler Buchner showed what he can do behind a decent O-line. He believes Hartman is at his ceiling while Buchner's is higher and is still rising.


Replies to: Be careful what you wish for in Sam Hartman, an INT machine


Thread Level: 2

INT rate very similar for Buchner and Hartman: 1 every 22 vs. 1 every 20 (rounded to nearest #)

Author: MarkHarman (7241 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:26 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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Mike Goolsby believes Hartman is at his ceiling while Buchner is still rising. Don't count on Hartman to automatically be the starter. I bet Buchner busts his rear end this offseason.

Thread Level: 3

Huh? Hartman career 1597 passes 41 ints. is 38.95 Buchner 116 and 8 is 14.74. Check it.

Author: irishsmashmouth (3291 Posts - Joined: Oct 26, 2010)

Posted at 3:29 am on Jan 3, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

You better check again. Wherever you got those numbers are wrong. Are you making it up?

Author: irishsmashmouth (3291 Posts - Joined: Oct 26, 2010)

Posted at 3:18 am on Jan 3, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

ND offered, it's his decision all the way. Is he stringing the Irish along like Moore did ?

Author: ColeyO (12435 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:12 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

If the end game is to compete with the Georgia and Alabama’s Buchner’s play

Author: MuskyTommy (3947 Posts - Joined: Feb 7, 2012)

Posted at 3:29 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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the other night won’t work. That would have been a 21 point loss. I guess will see what Freeman thinks of his QB’s very soon.

Thread Level: 3

Re: Sam Hartman threw 3 picks in a losing effort this year to NC State

Author: IrishOkie (243 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:25 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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I like Sam, But if that's his ceiling within the ACC, I think we can safely say that he won't be working any miracles in a Golden Helmet against Georgia or Alabama either. A year ago, I would have loved to have Hartman instead of Coan. Buchner has started 3 freakin' college games for God's sake. I don't even know what Hartman's overall record is, but I don't think he's ever won 10 games in a season over a 5 year career. IMHO he's just not worth the chance in regards to losing Buchner, Angelli, Minchey, or Carr.

Thread Level: 2

Hartman's RTG was 159.4 and Pyne's was 155.3 in 2022

Author: bobdrake (737 Posts - Joined: Sep 30, 2021)

Posted at 3:29 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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If Hartman's stats were a lot better, I could understand recruiting him

Thread Level: 3

No better comparison than common opponents..

Author: Chrisb (16376 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:36 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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QB stats against our four common opponents from '22.

Pyne 55/95(58%) 646yds 6.8avg 6/1
Vs.
Hartman 93/143(65%) 1,301yds 9.1avg 19/2


"Notre Dame by a million..Go Irish!" -Shane Gillis
Thread Level: 4

Do you have the info regarding INTs with common opponents?

Author: bobdrake (737 Posts - Joined: Sep 30, 2021)

Posted at 6:08 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 5

Yes, it's listed there: 6 to 1 & 19 to 2

Author: Chrisb (16376 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 7:25 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

"Notre Dame by a million..Go Irish!" -Shane Gillis
Thread Level: 4

Chris, you've posted this a couple times. You're comparing Hartman to Pyne. Limited value at best

Author: Irish_Demon (2771 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:57 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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There's little question, from most anyway, that Hartman would be a better option than Pyne. But, that's not the question, as you know. I think Tommy Rees has shown that he will call a different game with Buchner.

Thread Level: 5

Do you not see the post I replied to?

Author: Chrisb (16376 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 5:36 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

"Notre Dame by a million..Go Irish!" -Shane Gillis
Thread Level: 2

Hartman is a huge upgrade

Author: franksboy (4495 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:05 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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If Buchner stays, and Hartman enrolls it will be the strongest QB room ND has had in many years.

Thread Level: 3

Huge, and I don't understand those who think otherwise.

Author: NDQuebec (2116 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 4:20 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 4

So just out of curiosity. With Hartman are you thinking 14, 13 ,12, 11, or 10 wins next season?

Author: IrishOkie (243 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:33 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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Cuz if it's short of 12 or 13, we've just hung our ass out in the breeze with the other QB's on the roster or coming for very little reward.

Thread Level: 5

I'm thinking 10 or 11 during the regular season.

Author: NDQuebec (2116 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 5:00 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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8 or 9 with Buchner and his backup, cuz there is a good chance he gets injured during the regular season.

In any case why not take insurance with Hartman? Two birds in the hand are better than one in the bush, right?


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 5

Starting at 10 it’s an upgrade over this year

Author: WoodstockIrish (14628 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:48 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

Last two years he averaged an int. for every 36 passes. Buchner int for every16 passes this year.

Author: irishsmashmouth (3291 Posts - Joined: Oct 26, 2010)

Posted at 3:01 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

I got Hartman 1 INT for every 21.9 passes; Buchner 1 INT for every 19.7 passes.

Author: MarkHarman (7241 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:23 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

But he’s 6’1”

Author: WoodstockIrish (14628 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:22 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

Vs our four common opponents this year Hartman threw 19 TDs 2 Ints vs 6 TDs 1 Int..

Author: Chrisb (16376 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:47 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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that's an upgrade too obvious to ignore.

In 2022, 6 of his 12 Ints came in 2 back to back games (don't know what deal was in those 2 games, injury, supporting cast, etc) which means in his other 10 games he threw only 6 ints...hardly an int machine (which if you are worried about, Buchner should be a much greater concern in this department).

When you factor in the much less talented supporting cast he played with at Wake, if you use the same effort level you are in projecting Buchner as being special, it's VERY easy to project Hartman as being more successful with our supporting cast.


"Notre Dame by a million..Go Irish!" -Shane Gillis
Thread Level: 2

Uhm, you do know that Buchner threw 2 pick 6’s on

Author: Frank L (64017 Posts - Joined: Sep 20, 2007)

Posted at 2:35 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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Friday? And 3 total on the day. Sheesh.

This message has been edited 2 time(s).

Thread Level: 2

Sam Hartman ranks among the leaders in every category.

Author: ELP (9319 Posts - Joined: Oct 18, 2020)

Posted at 2:32 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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15th Passing Efficiency, 4th Passing TDs, 11th Passing Yards, 8th Passing yds per game, 38 TDs/ 12 picks. So, this is going to be a decision that Rees/MF are going to have to live with. Can Tyler finish a season? Can Rees develop Tyler? Can Rees call games that will put his QB in the best position to win? First and goal at the seven. He needs to be better.

Thread Level: 3

Including interceptions

Author: MarkHarman (7241 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:24 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

Buchner can't stay healthy. Backup plan if its not Hartman? Angeli not going to get a shot

Author: goldenleprekan (67 Posts - Joined: Nov 15, 2007)

Posted at 2:27 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

We have nothing behind Buchner. Less experience than pyne had to start year

Author: ndphysics (3896 Posts - Joined: Sep 17, 2016)

Posted at 2:29 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

Interceptions aren’t always a “bad” thing

Author: NDNEIL (7423 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:25 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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1. A QB scared to throw interceptions typically isn’t very effective.

2. Not all interceptions are created equally. For example, throwing a deep ball interception on 3rd down is typically similar to a punt. Throwing an interception on first and goal isn’t very smart.


Thread Level: 3

Did Rees say that?

Author: bobdrake (737 Posts - Joined: Sep 30, 2021)

Posted at 3:37 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 4

I vaguely remember him saying that to Kelly

Author: NDQuebec (2116 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 5:11 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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at the end of the Tulsa game way back when.

Thread Level: 4

Maybe, but a lot of other coaches have

Author: NDNEIL (7423 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:15 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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Do you think throwing an interception on the last play of the game down 7 is the same as throwing one on the first play?

I’ll hang up and listen to your answer.


Thread Level: 3

Wow

Author: WoodstockIrish (14628 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:23 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 4

You disagree?

Author: NDNEIL (7423 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:14 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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Some make perspective linked.

Shall we debate?


Link: https://www.pff.com/news/stat-sheet-misconceptions-interceptions

Thread Level: 2

Wake is a nice little school with a gadget football team.

Author: irishslovak (1312 Posts - Joined: Oct 30, 2022)

Posted at 2:24 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

Buchner's dual threat ability is something that Hartman lacks.

Author: Irishize (7596 Posts - Joined: Dec 1, 2018)

Posted at 2:22 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

Except it actually isn't...in fact if you look at the type of mobility

Author: Chrisb (16376 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:09 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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that truly makes a QB lethal to defenses, Hartman is superior to Buchner. Buchner has better straight line speed, but Hartman has the kind of lateral quickness to make an unblocked DL miss like what Book was good at, and move around in the backfield to extend plays and then take off running if they forget about him.

"Notre Dame by a million..Go Irish!" -Shane Gillis
Thread Level: 2

Buchner played 1 game behind a good o line. Hardly

Author: ndphysics (3896 Posts - Joined: Sep 17, 2016)

Posted at 2:18 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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A decent sample size. Hartman may it may not work out. But rolling dice on Buchner seems risky with no backup on the roster with any experience. Can’t complain if u want Buchner and it downs work out.

I am not arguing for Hartman but this sounds like this years plan. Buchner or bust


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 3

I hope it “downs works out”

Author: WoodstockIrish (14628 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:34 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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You never disappoint

Thread Level: 4

Fat freaking fingers

Author: ndphysics (3896 Posts - Joined: Sep 17, 2016)

Posted at 5:02 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

I am not wishing for anything but Buchner to start next fall.

Author: murph78 (1923 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 2:18 pm on Jan 2, 2023
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(no message)

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