Sorry I could not have given my input after the Bowl Game. Out of town in South
Carolina but proudly wore my ND stuff and let a few people know we own the state of South Carolina.
For my two cents:
We should go with Buchner if it is an even tryout for the position with Sam Hartman. Buchner was tough as nails in the bowl game as measured by his willingness to stay in the pocket and absorb strong shots to the midsection and deliver the ball. His long pass to number 83 from a different window was absolutely superb. He was right on target to Lenzy also on the TD pass while getting planted. The interceptions for the first pick six was on a tipped ball, so I cannot fully blame him. The second interception he threw was him trying to make an athletic play and if he had Mayer it would have probably succeeded. The fact that he has the ability to even attempt that kind of play demonstrates physical ability way beyond Sam Hartman. The third interception was a bone head play call and for Tyler's part he should have looked for a bail out receiver from the backfield or tucked it and ran.
Sam Hartman has a problem with interceptions that no one speaks of without the ability to make big plays that Buchner has. IMO Buchner is truly just a short way from being a difference maker.
Also our line played pretty badly as far as pass protection and didn't even block the run well in the first half. Alt may be overrated, Lugg was pathetic and though both played horribly, especially on pass protection and Buchner was able to overcome this. And please put a lot of value on this, after the 100 yard pick six, Buchner absolutely sucked it up and led a superb drive to win the game. Not many QBs do that after what had happened.
All I want is that there is a fair competition for the starting job with the loser available to pick up the pieces if there is a problem during the game. I am a big fan of the potential of Buchner. As far as comparing him to Wimbush, Buchner has hit on many more tough passes than Wimbush ever did. I remember the 2017 TD pass to Chris Finke against Michigan and if Finke did not make an absolutely phenomenal grab between two defenders on the Wimbush throw, we probably would have lost that game.
Replies to: Sorry I could not have given my input after the Bowl Game. Out of town in South
Come On Man!
Buchner did some really nice things in the Gator (vs a depleted defense) that give a lot to be encouraged about, but those first INTs were completely on him with his poor ball security, so don't try to sugarcoat his mistakes.
But this comment..
"Sam Hartman has a problem with interceptions that no one speaks of (((without the ability to make big plays that Buchner has)))."
..is pure unadulterated nonsense of the highest order. Hartman's TD to INT ratio is FARRRRRR better than Buchner's.
In case you just don't really realize what exactly you are saying here, you are comparing a guy who has thrown 6 TDs vs 8 INTs to a guy who has thrown 110 TDs to 41 INTs.
Hartman has thrown over 18 times the TDs, but only 5 times the INTs...let that sink in a minute.
With the amount of INTs Buchner currently has, he would have to get to 22 TDs without another pick just to be on pace with Hartman.
..serious question man, are you high?
You convinced me. Buchner has no chance of ever improving
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Did I say that 12.0?
No I absolutely didn't, in fact I think Buchner has a lot of room to improve.
But to say right now that "Sam Hartman has a problem with interceptions that no one speaks of without the ability to make big plays that Buchner has." Is borderline F'ing retarded.
I think Buchner can and will improve a lot...the point is he has to improve a LOT, just to be on pace with Hartman.
Buch has 6 career TDs to 9 INTs. 4 or those INTs were pick sixes.
Are we going to do this for the entire off-season?
Yes because he is the most spectacular athletically and a good enough passer when he is protected.
His arm is "fast twitch" strong. I know it is cool to think he is overrated. The only guys that would not say that he could be excellent are pretty negative thinkers, because that is always the "cool way" to give an opinion. Remember, Ian Book wasn't going to even get drafted, now the Philly coach says he is the smartest QB he has ever been around. Another thing is the "cool" glass argument. The injuries Buchner had previously are flukey types,(ACL, Shoulder driven into the ground) if he had something like a chronic pulled hamstring than maybe the "glass" thing would be true. I guess Jalen Hurts is partial "glass" too because a guy tackled him so his shoulder was driven into the ground and he had to miss three games. Well Buchner was hit in a worse way the second game. than Hurts was on his injury.
Stats are very overrated and you have to look at circumstances. I haven't seen a QB stand in tough, knowing he was going to get killed, and not change his staying strong to complete the pass downfield like Buchner did against South Carolina. Or change the release angle on a long pass and have it hit the guy perfectly. Our line was horrible the first half. It always come down to the line.
Could his touch be better on the short stuff, yes, but he is pretty darn good on the long ball and the longer down field balls. Line protection will always be the key and possibly having a system where he drops slightly further if the blocking breaks down.
And to be clear, you're talking about Buchner, not Wimbush, right?
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Yes, Buchner knows how to play like a QB when he has protection. Is that clear?
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Of course we are Jabba
This place is insufferable from 1 Jan to 1 Aug.
Buchner played a decent game which was defined by throwing three touchdowns two of which were Pick6’s and yet once again he is the greatest QB of all time
Ok, that's factually just wrong
He threw 3 actual TDs to our team...he also threw 3 picks, 2 of which were TDs for other team.
..but your point is valid.
And as usual you overdo what we say and try to run with it. He has a lot of potential and when
given time, performs well. He has bailed us out in games in 2021 twice, and he led the long drive after the admittedly poor decision on the pick 6. The first pick 6 was a tipped ball. The other interception occurred because he tried to make a play and he came back from that too.
You legitimately think he is better than Hartman
But I’m the one with the problem
You’re the guy who couldn’t get in the internet for two weeks in South Carolina but I’m the one with the problem?
You are special. And I am not being kind.
I think it should be a fair competition with consideration given to Buchner's upside and
consideration given to Hartman's experience which I don't quite hold as important as upside. Fair?
No that's not fair! In a fair competition there is no 'consideration'
given, they compete and whoever is better right now wins...that is the only thing considered in a fair competition, not who you "think" "might" be better "some day".
You try to claim you want a fair competition but claim Buchner has better upside...based on what?!?!?
Because Buchner can run in a straight line faster?
Fast twitch baby, fast twitch. It makes a big difference against good teams. But yes who wins it and
I am assuming both QQBs strengths will show up in the spring.
The only thing that matters is who can beat all 12 opponents next fall
Who gives a flying f*ck about upside potential when you have a guy who is already an 8/10 right now. That’s all that matters. You put the best 22 players on the field especially at QB1.
Buchner has proven virtually nothing yet. Hartman is light years ahead of him.
Well you are right when you say the only thing that matters is who can beat all 12 opponents, so say
they both can. I just think Buchner has a more likely chance to beat 13 and 14.
Delete.
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Buchner threw 3 TD’s *and* 2 pick 6’s
Not “two of which”. He also had 2 rushing TD’s, if we care about being accurate.
But you are right, that doesn’t make him the greatest QB ever.
I like Buch. I don't want to spend the off-season comparing him to Hartman
Because there is no reasonable comparison and anything I respond with is going to sound like I'm bashing the kid.
He's tough. He's a high character kid. He's done a whole heck of a lot to win us games with his legs, but his arm is still more than willing to lose us a few. He needs another year of development.
Some of us are presenting arguments because of the plusses of Buchner rather than any minuses of
Hartman. Hartman does throw what looks to be an accurate pass and seems highly competitive and cool. Hartman has an interception history but that could be the circumstances of the game too. I just think there is far more to gain with Buchner and I hope he beats Hartman out because that will tell the story there. It's not personal it's business. This is the business we chose.
Good news, he’s probably gonna get it
Hartman should win the job and I hope he does. But Buch should have every chance to win the job. Less talented QB’s than Buchner have made tremendous strides the older they get.
Brady Quinn
47% completions, 9 TD’s and 14 interceptions in year 1.
54% completions and 17/10 in year 2.
64% completions and 32/7 in year 3.
Jimmy Clausen
56% completions and 7/6 in year 1.
60% completions and 25/17 in year 2.
68% completions and 28/4 in year 3.
^^^this^^^
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Hartman is ready NOW and Buchner still needs time to get better.
Here was your quote: "IMO Buchner is truly just a short way from being a difference maker."
The difference is Buchner HAS the potential to be a difference maker, while Hartman has already SHOWN it. Let Hartman start and Buchner have his package sprinkled in. Give Buchner another year to develop with Hartman as an example, and then Buchner still has 2 years to start in 2024 & 2025.
The alternative is similar to the start of this year. Buchner is close but not there yet at the beginning of the season and we lose a game or two.... but will figure it out by the middle to end of the season. Hartman can allow you to start the season with high level QB play from the beginning and is what you need if you are hoping for a championship season. Buchner can still have a place in this offense and a future at ND and Hartman can lead the team to start the season. I see it as a WIN, WIN.
You logically make sense in one way but the other position is with more live reps you improve. It's
tough. We can win games until Buchner becomes the star that we all hope he becomes.
Agree. No internet service down there yet?
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He was on Daufuskie Island...
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That answers it. They shut off all communcations when one is discovered a Yankee...
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Hartman doesn’t have a problem throwing TDs.
There is no comparison between Buchner’s
stats and Hartman’s.
Sam was a Top 20 QB last year.
I completely agree especially comment on TBs ability
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There will be a fair competition, but I think everybody expects that Hartman will in it.
Hartman is a really accomplished throwing quarterback. From what I can tell, he's really good. He's thrown interceptions but he throws downfield a lot. He completed more downfield throws than Pyne even attempted this year and that is going to lead to some.
I like Buchner, but I don't think he's developed enough as a pocket QB in the two and a half games he's played to beat Hartman in a QB competition. But he'll have his shot.
I completely agree
My fear is that Buchner outplays Hartman in the spring and preseason, but that the staff would feel obligated to start Hartman, anyway.
If Buchner beats Hartman, I think Freeman will play him.
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As he should, or he shouldn't be coaching
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