Can someone educate me about board negativity regarding recruiting?
Because I'm looking at Rivals and ND right now has the #2 2024 class. And although ranked #11 for 2023, ND's average star rating is higher than 7 of the schools ranked higher.
Replies to: Can someone educate me about board negativity regarding recruiting?
Looking at Rivals ND defensive recruiting for 2024
We have 7 players, 4 of whom are 4-stars. Man, I just don't get the negativity, but I've long recognized that to too many people, if something isn't 100% perfect then it's 100% crap.
How many in the top 350?
The answer is 1. That’s bad.
Truthfully the ND board should be 40-50 offers throughout TOP 250 players, 8-10 offers to sleepers
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8-10?
No. 3 at the most. The rest need to be top 400.
Sleeper prospect meaning in the 350-475 range, offering 3 wouldn't be enough
I think your mistaking commits with offers...definitely need to be offering 8-10 or 12 and most jump at the opportunity to play for ND. I'm not a big proponent of accepting commitments from more than 4-5.
So the expectation is that we land 35-40% of everyone offered? I'm no expert here..
but that seems pretty steep, especially considering that you are talking about limiting the pool to primarily the top 250 players.
I doubt we (or many, if any, not named Bama) have that kind of success rate now, so doubt it would be sustainable hunting all big fish.
I feel "We Are ND" we set our standard and DEFINITELY land 25% of 80 offers, and add a few sleepers
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It may seem pretty steep, but other programs are doing it now.
I mean that was a generalization, but you could definitely have an offer list of 75-80 to the Top 250-300 and another 8-12 on "sleeper" prospects and of course narrow your propects from that pool in half and getting them to campus/spring game/blue gold invasion. From there narrow it down more to around 25 guys and get those OFFICIAL visits lined up and commits rolling.
Trolls being trolls.
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Not trolling
If you dig deeper beyond the surface, most of the 4* are right on the edge of being 3*.
Lou Holtz once said, "Get Mom on your side." Coach Freeman has a great personality and Denzel
Washington good looks. Women, old and young, like the guy!
Re: Lou Holtz once said, "Get Mom on your side." Coach Freeman has a great personality and Denzel
As long as he doesn’t turn into Josh Gattis with the moms.
They also brought in more 4/5 star players than all but 2 teams. A balanced class between
offense and defense and by position. Consistent with previous classes' body types and physical attributes by position.
Freeman and his team run an outstanding recruiting and roster-building operation. There is absolutely nothing to be negative about concerning this.
Look at the Defense
One player in the top 350, that’s concerning. It’s even more concerning when most of the remaining Board is 3* outside of the DL.
Some dudes here would have howled when we offered Joe MontanA.
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Montana was a PARADE AA (Not a diamond in the rough) but was a STUD in Basketball as well...
He seriously considered NC State because he was given the opportunity to play both sports, but luckily Terry Hanratty was his idol growing up!
that’s stupid
They would’ve already had a loaded class of studs, not a class riddled with mediocre prospects.
Do ppl think Montana was a 3* type of recruit?? He was a PARADE AA
Even though he liked Basketball a bit more at that age, he was very good at both and made All American teams in both, one PARADE and Honorable mention in the other. Actually was asked to play for ND Basketball team but Devine said "NO!"
It comes down to this, we hired a zero experience HC because he was supposed
to be a fantastic recruiter.
Many probably expected to see an immediate and stark difference in recruiting "results".
But being realistic, this is not so realistic.
My bias against hiring a zero experience HC aside, I do think Freeman is doing a great job in recruiting. If you really look at it, there is a very noticeable uptick in the caliber of athletes he is bringing in from top to bottom and his recruiting effort is leaps, bounds, heads and shoulders above his predecessor. But effort only carries so much weight...for a guy who the primary qualifier for hiring a HC, was pushed aside in favor of recruiting acumen (which is only one of the many things that combine to make a great HC), it is all about recruiting results.
Being able to have great recruiting "results" relies on 3 basic fundamentals 1) having good natural recruiting ability, which I believe Freeman does 2) being a tireless worker AT recruiting, which I believe Freeman also checks off this box in spades 3) the third one however relies on one of the most basic all-time laws in college football (especially for the big boy programs) when you have a great looking product on the field and start winning at a high level, recruiting success WILL follow.
The more he wins the better his recruiting results will be, the more Marshall, Stanford and Navy like performances we see the more his results will trail off.
To expect more 5 star success from him at this point is not super realistic, which is why I was against the hire. You hire a guy who can WIN because then recruiting will follow, because even the best recruiter will have some struggles until the product on the field is more desirable to elite recruits.
Sweet Jesus... You are a long winded know-nothing...
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More likely a 49yo well intellected individual without intellectual football knowledge who at times
Comes off smarter than he thinks
You figured it out too.....
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Its alot of miserable ppl out there who hide behind keyboards and this is the highlight of their day
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Late to the party here but I had the same bias against hiring a newbie HC.
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Pretty well stated, especially #3 gotta see the production on the field to keep them coming.
We still need to find a way to get back to the ND way of reeling in 5* guys or even Top 50 guys with consistency. I remember Weis bringing in 30 guys in the Top 100 over a 5 year period and we could certainly use a stretch like that and contend for multiple 'Chips!
Isn’t a 5 star usually a top 30 player? It seems like Alabama, Georgia and OSU get about 15 to 20
combined. Everyone else is fighting for the final dozen or so,
Yes, top 35 most years but that's exactly the problem how 3-4 schools seems to get 90% of them!
Notre Dame shouldn't have this much trouble landing 2-3 a year. They almost always start off great but the finish line has robbed them of several needs, and game changing players over the years.
According to 247 sports we have 2 with Carr and Williams. Keeping them and adding a couple more
would be nice. It shows Florida with 4 Five stars right now.
Agreed, 3-4 a year should be very feasible at ND now lets just hold on to these guys and we'll see c
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So?
That has nothing to do with taking a bunch of crappy 3*. There’s about 400 players in that 4* range.
Go away. Not talking to you. My post is about getting 5 stars not ND taking 3 stars. Now I know why
people have you on ignore.
Agree...one thing I think he's doing right now
Is taking shots at some of the elite recruits, while placing a high value on talent evaluation and trying to get body types they like who are underrated.
This is fine in the beginning to build a base, but this season needs to show ND will be big winners on the field under Freeman and then the season after Hartman leaves he has to not allow a drop off. If he does that I believe he will start landing the 5 stars and then it all snowballs.
Just gotta win big first.
Just one…
Top 5 class every 4-5 years, but staying in the top 10 every yr, will at least give them some kind of chance.
Top 5 every 3 years and top 10 every year, should build the right mix of depth and top-end talent
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every 3 yrs is a stretch
4-5 is being more reasonable with the restrictions on ND
Weis did it and it wasn't too long ago, I believe the restrictions are overblown to mask ineptitude
in recruiting. The strategies in general or the product on the field not being consistent enough for these kids nowadays who want everything right away.
Weis was a buffoon...the sooner we forget him, the better
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I'd pay for a Top 10 offense right now, the buffoon to me is who wouldn't
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Once Weis didn't have Quinn to bail him out, not his recruit, he went 3-9 and 16-21 overall,
He was a total buffoon...
Interesting, the same Quinn who went 11-13 with 25TDs and 25Ints W/O Weis!!
The guy has given Weis credit for getting him drafted. Quinn looked pretty bad before Weis transformed him into a Heisman candidate as he did with Clausen. The offense scoring was 84th the two years PRIOR to Weis then went 7th in his 1ST YEAR!
Not good enough
Flat out. Last yr’s class was outside the top 10, but it was built with mostly 4*. This class sucks ass on D and is worse than any Kelly D class at the moment.
Scott CB’d to Miami
By some guy at On3. ND & Washington can’t fuck this up. Sevillano is not an acceptable back up, don’t listen to anything Singer, Loy, Prister, and especially Driskell say. They’re all pussies and will pump up every recruit.
Bottom line, Freeman isn’t getting it done. He’s not a good enough coach to get away with recruiting like Kelly. Right now, they won’t finish in the Top 15 with this disaster of a Defensive class.
Need to see Sevillano in camp setting but his tape is good and 22 sacks in 11 games is GREEEAT!
Of course we NEED the Scott's to be playing for us and not 'Bama, Georgia, LSU or tOSU for once, with a guy like Sevillano coming in as a change of pace instead of as "The guy"
They’re not taking both
It’s Scott or Sevillano. They’ve already taken multiple projects, they can’t take another guy who won’t see the field for 3 years+.
I have no idea why they aren’t pressing harder for Umeh, if Scott is leaning elsewhere.
If that's the case then therein would lie the problem in strategy.
Hit on a trensetter or "cornerstone" then surround with with comparable talent with high floors and high ceilings, and then look at projects with low floors and high ceilings and plenty of potential. Should never be a one or another onntwo guys with such disparity between the two.
Let's not get carried away. A single down year on defense isn't going to sink the program.
We still have some big names on the board with Scott, KVA, Rushing and Thomas.
The DL isn't a gap closing class yet, but it's not bad. Wafle will easily be 300lbs and that's not something ND finds easily on the DL. Young and Mullins are long and athletic. Scott would take it to the next level.
If you are going to take a flyer on a kid, you are least want him to be fast and Rezac and Kahoun can apparently run. The good news is that ND is loaded at LB. They will have time to develop. We need Kyngstonn or this will be a disappointing unit.
Whoever Mickens wants at CB is fine with me.
...it's really good that the Rhode Island safety has two years of eligibility. I've heard O'Leary is a really good developer. I just don't know how you keep him after this year unless something changes drastically in recruiting and/or on the field.
One bad class
Can absolutely sink any chance of competing for a title, in the immediate future. How can you compete with crappy 3* when UGA is on track to sign the highest rated 247 class, ever. You can’t.
They absolutely need Scott, KVA, and to flip Beasley. Safety is a lost cause, it’s going to be crappy no matter who they sign.
"ignore poster" is your friend
The two primary trolls here are pretty pathetic. I just never see the non-sensical "ND sucks at ...." posts.
^^what he said^^
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Re: ^^what he said^^
Sorry if you want to ignore reality. If I’m just trolling, explain to me how the current D class is any good.
Re: "ignore poster" is your friend
I’m not a troll. This is a very real issue and we can’t just bury our heads in the sand. This Defensive class sucks, it’s terrible. And unless they hit on every HVT, they’re screwed. 3* do not win titles. Period.
^^^Very true in a sense, 3* wont win a thing as the focal point or basis
They're needed for depth and with potential to outplay their rank, but a Championship contender wouldn't have but a few sprinkled in their class. Georgia has signed some nice classes over the past 6 years and has 23 3* guys from '18-'23 out of 151 commits (15%) which is about all you should have on a % basis if you want to contend for 'chips, but of course they also have 30+ 5* guys over that period so I guess that helps!
We need safeties and OL in this class. That's not going well so far.
And there's a lot of angst surrounding Justin Scott.
It's also probably for some carry over the way we closed out the last class.
OL will be fine
Lambert is a heavy ND lean. Everywhere on D is bad at this point. DL has a strong board with Loghan Thomas CB’d to ND. However, not getting Scott with a raw 3* as Plan B, is not good. LB recruiting has been downright atrocious with the 2 current commits. Corner is very weak, but Mickens gets a pass for this yr. Safety is laughably bad. O’Leary is useless.
OL is always very good much like WISC, now make like 'Bama and tOSU and get speed at the skill pos
CB recruiting needs to keep building off last years class and not fall off a cliff or be content with a bunch of "under the radar" prospects and pretty much goes for our skill positions in general.
Lambert has supposedly been a heavy lean for a long time.
The longer a heavy lean stays a heavy lean without committing, the more concerned I get.
Rudolph was in a tough spot when he stepped on campus because we'd just missed out on the Utah OL coach. That will be a comparison he has to contend with in addition to having to follow Heistand.
He made it tougher when he passed on Caleb Brewer, but took Knapp. That'll be another thing to watch over the next few years.
Now his entire first class depends on him getting a guy that he should have probably already closed on. That's not a great position be in.
We've heard the heavy lean story all too many times now and usually goes the other way somehow
Lambert, Prescod and Scott but let's see how it turns out
Respectfully…
Lambert is more introverted and private. He’s visited one school, BC, and it was bc it was near his family home. Everything about this kid suggests he’s an ND fit and once he’s on campus, expect ND to seal it.
Catholic Memorial guy, I expect him and Prescod to be ND
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Re: Catholic Memorial guy, I expect him and Prescod to be ND
Lambert and either Prescod or Brix is just fine. However, I can’t pretend like something isn’t seriously wrong on D
Defense is DEFINITELY subpar but one of these 50yo old do nothing know it alls would disagree
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Re: Can someone educate me about board negativity regarding recruiting?
Also, don’t listen to the idiots who say rankings don’t matter. In the last decade, Clemson is the only team to have won a title without at least one top 5 class on the roster. They just happen to be lucky enough to have 2 all time great college QBs leading those title teams.
A yr ago ND was big game hunting elite talent and now they’re settling for some kid ranked in the 900s, that no respectable P5 team wanted or a kid that’s a better lax player than football player. It’s absolute horseshit. And the entire ND media are ballless sycophants who will lie to us. These kids aren’t undervalued, they’re not diamonds in the rough, their film only looks good bc they’re going up vs a bunch of scrubs in HS. Freeman is recruiting on Kelly’s level in this class. The Blue Chip ratio is 68% at 247 and as low as 56% at on3. That’s awful and embarrassing.
Yes, look at the Defense
DL: Mullins 3*, Wafle low 4*, Young 4*
LB Rezac low 3*, Kahoun 3*
CB Hobbs 3*, Moore low 4*
S Urlacher 3*
Then you look at the board, if they don’t get Scott, they settle for Sevillano a 3*, if they don’t get KVA, they settle for 3* House. And the S board is nothing but 3* or very low 4*.
The #2 ranking is inflated by having so many early commits. The fact of the matter is, this Defensive class is horrible. This is not what Freeman was hired to recruit.
What makes this even worse is that defense is supposed to be Freeman's "bread & butter" so to speak
Signing 3* defenders isn't going to cut it.
But they’re the right body type
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I see two groups: trolls masquerading as ND fans, and this…..
Re: I see two groups: trolls masquerading as ND fans, and this…..
Then you’re wrong. It’s not trolling, they have 1 top 350 player on D committed, Bryce Young. That’s absolutely pitiful.
You can’t be upset when UGA or Bama kick ND’s ass while applauding the commitment of every mediocre 3*.That’s why they kick ND’s ass. They’re not taking Rezac, Kahoun, Hobbs,etc.
Have u seen Teddy Rezac play? I have, and he's a baller. He will
definitely contribute at ND. Safe yr shit talking about someone you actually have no idea about. Think Xavier Watts but bigger and faster
Two Omaha kids, oddly enough Rezac is under the radar while his teammate garners many looks
Rezac is the taller and longer guy buy he's certainly not faster than the 4x100 State Champs 3rd leg.
Rezac isn’t underrated
I’m tired of hearing that, he didn’t even dominate at the HS level.
What are you talking about? Yr embarrassing yrself
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No
Embarrassing is recruiting a kid ranked in the 900s with 2 offers from bottom feeders in the P5. All the major P5 schools in the region, that rely on recruiting undervalued players like Iowa, Iowa St, Kansas St, Ok St, passed on him. That says it all.
You can’t be upset when Bama or UGA smack ND around, while also hyping up commits like this.
Re: Have u seen Teddy Rezac play? I have, and he's a baller. He will
Yeah, every other major P5 staff was wrong. No, it was a bad take and I’m tired of pretending like all these crappy 3* recruits are hidden gems. No, most are mediocre players.
That’s the problem with ND media, they’re too cowardly to give real opinions. This kid isn’t anything special, he won’t see the field at ND and it was stupid to waste a scholarship on him.
Don’t take your cues from the trolls
For some reason people react to them, rather than ignore them.
There is room for improvement but we’re doing damn good.
How do you like the defensive class?
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Re: How do you like the defensive class?
It sucks, why are people defending this?
Re: Don’t take your cues from the trolls
How is the Defensive class damn good? It’s worse than anything Kelly ever recruited. I’m tired of pretending like this isn’t a big deal, recruiting is the most important factor in deterring a program’s success.
Right now, Al Golden’s worthless ass, is getting outrecruited by his former GA. O’Leary is a complete failure and has no business being retained. Washington needs to close on Thomas and or Williams plus Scott. It would be totally unacceptable to miss Scott and replace him with another project in Sevillano. LB is KVA or bust. Safety is just embarrassing.