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To your last paragraph...yes, I did introduce the "Rape Case" scenario, so let's not avoid it, since

Author: TyroneIrish (20458 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)
Posted at 7:43 pm on May 6, 2022
View All

it factors in virtually all judgements regarding the acceptability of any abortion.

In such a case we have a completely unwanted and uninvited "intruder"...that will undoubtedly develop into a new person...introduced to a woman's uterus by a truly "Irresponsible" man. The considered opinion of the overwhelmingly large majority of Americans is that the woman in this case is totally within her rights to "Reject" the intruder, if she so chooses...and if any criminality is to be assigned, it needs to be directed toward that "Irresponsible" man who should not have created this tragic situation in the first place.

The "Innocent Intruder" you refer to repeatedly is the responsibility of the "Irresponsible" man, and not the woman...she should be free to take whatever action she deems appropriate in order to retain as much of the freedom, physical and mental health, and economic status that she had prior to this "Unwanted and Undesired" event as she can....hopefully, in this and all other instances of "Unwanted Pregnancies" the option of carrying to term will be prioritized, and abetted by substantial amounts of empathy and assistance.

Speaking of those "other" Unwanted Pregnancies, there is IMO, a significant spectrum of encounters that border on what most people consider "Rape"...be it "Incest"..."Date Rape", or "Marital Abuse"...all of which, we have come to know as being hard to judicially finalize, if you get my drift, so in effect, we need to rely on the woman's word for justification of her choice on abortion. But, it is also correct that significant numbers that occur because of mutual 'Carelessness' ...unfortunately, as I've posted before, even before Roe v. Wade, when states (e.g. Michigan) were indicting women for abortion, very few of them resulted in conviction...so the process is deeply flawed...and, btw, it is a "fact of life' that wealthy persons will avoid any such issues, while those of lesser means will end up serving as sacrificial lambs to prove the "efficacy" of those laws and prosecutions...so, again IMO, trying to adjudicate the justification for a woman's choice in ALL situations is going to be fruitless and simply best left allowing the woman to make that choice...especially in a pluralistic society like ours.

Note that Roe v. Wade has limitations, and I agree with that concept...as to what they should be (i.e. "Improvement" of RvW) is TBD.

With all this said, there is another path...education of all, young and old, about the need, and means, to be "Responsible"...education and availability fpr Contraceptives...and institutionalized programs to address women's natal and post-natal needs that lead to greater willingness to carry pregnancies to term...

btw, after reading and thinking more about the 'a priori' responsibility of men in this issue, I'm very much in favor of very aggressive programs that make it abundantly clear to that cohort that they will be held "Responsible' for any unwanted pregnancies...what those measures end up being is TBD, but they need to be "Impactful" (perhaps even a DNA registry)...I'm convinced they will make a significant difference.

I doubt that you're going to like what I've said, but try to take a few moments and ponder the concept I presented of a raped woman's inherent right to "Reject" the intrusion of an unwanted new life on her life...and the notion that it is the responsibility of the "Irresponsible Man".


Replies to: "To your last paragraph...yes, I did introduce the "Rape Case" scenario, so let's not avoid it, since"

  • "News Flash!"...Abortions did not start with Roe v. Wade... [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 12:02pm 5/5/22 (55) [View All]
    • [I can't believe I'm doing this.] No one said it did. Your title is a distraction, not a point. - NedoftheHill - 2:16pm 5/5/22
      • Ned, I'm glad you at least responded...big "Thumbs Up" from me...now let's continue the discussion.. - TyroneIrish - 4:09pm 5/5/22
        • Quick response regarding a threshhold issue. - NedoftheHill - 5:42pm 5/5/22
          • No need to clarify your term...I get what you mean...yes, an abortion stops a developing human being - TyroneIrish - 8:59pm 5/5/22
            • Ok. You agree abortion is homicide. The issue: Is it jusifiable or not? That narrows the discussion. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 10:58pm 5/5/22
            • You rely on outdated science to say that "faith" changes. But, doctrine didn't change, science did. [LINK] - NedoftheHill - 10:44pm 5/5/22
              • To your last paragraph...yes, I did introduce the "Rape Case" scenario, so let's not avoid it, since - TyroneIrish - 7:43pm 5/6/22
                • So, you support abortion in all cases. The rape/incest discussion is meaningless. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 9:42pm 5/6/22
                  • While I, like you, would like to be able to parse 'casual' from 'substantive' reasons for - TyroneIrish - 11:27pm 5/6/22
        • You lost me at “I’ll”, what a load of bullshit. [NT] - notredame678 - 4:17pm 5/5/22
          • Wow!...ten words...sure hope you take some time to recover from all that mental exertion ;-). [NT] - TyroneIrish - 4:27pm 5/5/22
            • Reading your screeds is indeed a mental challenge. [NT] - notredame678 - 5:01pm 5/5/22
      • "It is not a complicated issue." So says all zealots, pro-choice and pro-life. - Chris94 - 4:03pm 5/5/22
        • Morality is complicated - so say people who haven't invested the effort to work through the morality - NedoftheHill - 5:09pm 5/5/22
        • It’s a State issue, been saying for years. Get yourself to your fainting couch. [NT] - notredame678 - 4:12pm 5/5/22
          • You will change your tune. You all will. THE BABIES! THE BABIES!! [LINK] - Chris94 - 4:19pm 5/5/22
            • Get a grip on yourself. [NT] - notredame678 - 5:02pm 5/5/22
            • Interesting podcast - opinion is that national laws would all be DOA with this opinion [LINK] - Iggle - 4:37pm 5/5/22
              • Most laws in the past 80 years should have been dead on arrival. - NedoftheHill - 5:51pm 5/5/22
    • Yay! Another abortion thread! - Nigel Tufnel - 1:56pm 5/5/22
    • People believe that abortion is murder. - Iggle - 1:42pm 5/5/22
      • Ask yourself WHY 80-85% of the American public since 1975 (see link) has supported the legalization [LINK] [IMAGE] - TyroneIrish - 2:09pm 5/5/22
        • I also can switch that to say 70% believe abortion should be illegal in almost all cases, but stats - WestCoastIrishFan - 3:23pm 5/5/22
          • If less than 20% want abortion to be illegal in all cases, how do you make that statement... - TyroneIrish - 4:24pm 5/5/22
            • Are you being serious? Give it some thought. [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 6:24pm 5/5/22
              • I can't make the chart of the data any easier...sorry... [NT] - TyroneIrish - 11:54pm 5/5/22
        • So you concede his point. - NedoftheHill - 2:46pm 5/5/22
          • I get that many Pro-Lifers (but not all) stop at the word "Murder"...my contention...and that of - TyroneIrish - 4:38pm 5/5/22
            • His point remains unchallenged. You're taking us sideways now, which is fine. Just pointing that out - NedoftheHill - 4:57pm 5/5/22
              • I'll go out on a limb and say that 100% of Americans know what "Murder" is and fully support the - TyroneIrish - 11:28pm 5/5/22
                • You didn't answer the key question of my post. Respectfully, could you please try again? - NedoftheHill - 12:23am 5/6/22
                  • What part of :The reality that it is virtually impossible to discern which case is justified versus - TyroneIrish - 1:10am 5/6/22
      • Ty & Bishop McElory have a poll about that. Apparently Jesus was wrong. [NT] - Stark Raving Dad - 1:56pm 5/5/22
        • What exactly did Jesus say about abortion? [NT] - TyroneIrish - 2:09pm 5/5/22
          • You don't care what Jesus said. Your existence is to be right on a message board. - ELP - 3:55pm 5/5/22
          • What does His Church say? - NedoftheHill - 2:30pm 5/5/22
            • You are correct...Jesus said nothing about abortion...but for the Roman Catholic Church, - TyroneIrish - 5:54pm 5/5/22
              • Jesus is The Word. - Stark Raving Dad - 8:49pm 5/5/22
                • You're essentially making it up...there was no teaching on the subject...it has all developed over - TyroneIrish - 1:36am 5/6/22
                  • This is incorrect. Scripture speaks extensively about the sanctity of life. - Stark Raving Dad - 9:18am 5/6/22
              • You could ask political Larry what the Church teaches, but why not ask the Church what it teaches? - NedoftheHill - 6:29pm 5/5/22
            • Tyrone doesn't believe in Scripture. He said it's an ancient text not to be believed. [NT] - Stark Raving Dad - 2:34pm 5/5/22
              • You haven't answered the question yet, Stark...you brought it up...now back it up. [NT] - TyroneIrish - 4:40pm 5/5/22
                • I would invite you to address my question two posts up. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 4:52pm 5/5/22
                  • Oh you of little patience...see my response...all of it. [NT] - TyroneIrish - 5:57pm 5/5/22
                    • I can't get enough of you! [NT] - NedoftheHill - 6:24pm 5/5/22
    • 5 Down Votes, thus far, but not one response...each of you knows I'm right about this, but are too - TyroneIrish - 1:30pm 5/5/22
      • It might be that people don't want to read your bullshit. - NedoftheHill - 1:59pm 5/5/22
        • Truth, very tiresome [NT] - ColeyO - 3:19pm 5/5/22
        • Another example of complete disregard for women...read that article on why Pro-Life advocates [LINK] - TyroneIrish - 2:19pm 5/5/22
          • Ty, think how long you'll get to debate this in the afterlife. [NT] - WestCoastIrishFan - 3:26pm 5/5/22
            • OMG. Just realized what my personal hell will be. Stuck in a room reading Ty's links. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 3:30pm 5/5/22
          • Another example of complete disregard for babies. Read the Catechism. - NedoftheHill - 2:24pm 5/5/22
            • The Catholic Church has abdicated the preaching of abortion, homosexuality, & genderism to the NYT. - ELP - 3:58pm 5/5/22
              • Deleted. I misinterpreted your post. My bad. [NT] - NedoftheHill - 4:51pm 5/5/22
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