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Our Nation is unhinged, can a teacher refuse to teach evolution theory and claim 1st amendment

Author: Hibakusha (4668 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:13 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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protections?

Replies to: Our Nation is unhinged, can a teacher refuse to teach evolution theory and claim 1st amendment


Thread Level: 2

Here are some relevant court cases...

Author: TyroneIrish (20426 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 8:30 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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teachers must abide by the school district's curriculum...i.e. follow the science and not one of a multitude of religious beliefs.

Link: https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/about/faq/can-a-teacher-refuse-to-teach-certain-materials-in-class-if-heshe-feels-the-curriculum-infringes-on-hisher-personal-beliefs/

Thread Level: 2

So, you believe evolution is a theory, correct? (Based on your own words).

Author: BaronVonZemo (59899 Posts - Joined: Nov 19, 2010)

Posted at 7:30 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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My understanding is that the teacher did not have a problem with teaching evolution theory, he had a problem calling it a fact…….but it sounds like you two agree on that, so I guess that Idon’t understand your angst.

This message has been edited 3 time(s).

Thread Level: 3

It’s not really a theory, Baron. Your old science teachers would weep.

Author: Chris94 (36754 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 9:23 am on Dec 18, 2022
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Creationism is just misinformation, which - call me crazy - I don’t think has a place in schools.

Of course evolution does not threaten a secure faith. But there are lots and lots of fundamentally insecure believers out there who can tolerate no dissent.


Thread Level: 4

It’s not “really” a theory. Thanks for proving my point below. It’s religion to you.

Author: BaronVonZemo (59899 Posts - Joined: Nov 19, 2010)

Posted at 7:24 pm on Dec 18, 2022
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And it is you who brought up Creationism, not me. Regarding my faith, evolution has no impact. It is a very strong theory and the best available based on the facts at present. Given the DNA evidence, I would not consider arguing against it. But yes, it really IS a theory.
Does this shake your liberal faith?

Why are the most anti science people liberal? Shall we shut down all research for your zealotry now?

Again, I am very glad Einstein was not shut down by people like you when he threw a wrench in the comfy little world of Newtonian Physics.


This message has been edited 3 time(s).

Thread Level: 4

Yep

Author: golfkrzy (3284 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 4:54 pm on Dec 18, 2022
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(no message)

Link: https://youtu.be/bOCOMYGIfUQ

Thread Level: 2

Agreed with Iggle. Be specific pls. You don't mean refusing that iconic image of apes evolving into

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 6:32 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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humans, do you? If you do, of course the teacher can refuse to teach that.

Thread Level: 3

Of course you dont believe in evolution. Fits perfectly.

Author: Chris94 (36754 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 6:48 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Thread Level: 4

Ok. You made me believe this evolution - your IQ is evolved from ape. LOL

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 7:06 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Thread Level: 5

Doubting evolution, global warming, vaccines…but not anti-science!

Author: Chris94 (36754 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 8:20 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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The biggest problem facing democracy is that utter dumb fucks can vote.

Thread Level: 6

Doubting evolution? Humans did not evolve from any apes.We instead share a common ancestor that

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 10:22 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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lived about million years ago. Humans and apes have completed different evolutionary paths. This is just science 101. You may believe science, but you don't know science. You take science as religion. That's all. But people like you can easily be fooled and manipulated by science pastor, aka Mr "I am science".

This message has been edited 3 time(s).

Thread Level: 7

You should review the attached link...and if you're intellectually honest...a few of the references

Author: TyroneIrish (20426 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 11:27 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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and external links.

Too bad that Darwin didn't have the benefit of Genetic Science...he'd have been even firmer about evolution in his writings.


Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

Thread Level: 8

If you're intellectually honest, pls point out which post showed I doubt evolution.

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:48 am on Dec 18, 2022
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(no message)

Thread Level: 9

You appear to have introduced what might be termed a "Difference without Distinction" in this

Author: TyroneIrish (20426 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 1:25 am on Dec 18, 2022
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'argument'...while "Apes" and "Hominids" are different evolutionary branches...we are indeed strongly related (see link..."Dryopithecus) and that's what most believers in evolution think of and simplify as "Apes"...again, we have a great deal of similar DNA and this supports the science of evolution...as opposed to "Creationism".

With that said...are you an "Evolutionist" or a "Creationist"?


Link: https://byjus.com/biology/evolution-by-stages/

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 10

WTF. I point out a well known image of 50 years old, an example of misunderstanding evolution

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 7:07 pm on Dec 18, 2022
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badly and misled so many people. The march of progress. I used this example to press the thread creator to be specific on what he was talking about. A slogan on subject line doesn't mean anything.

Chris clearly is scientific ignorant, doesn't know what I was talking about. So are you. Science is specialized knowledge. I have no desire to expose you guys ignorance on science. It's unfair game to you. But you guys just asked for it. WTF.


Link: https://sites.wustl.edu/prosper/on-the-origins-of-the-march-of-progress/

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 11

It's a matter of semantics...from the attached Smithsonian Institute...

Author: TyroneIrish (20426 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 10:46 pm on Dec 18, 2022
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"Humans and monkeys are both primates. But humans are not descended from monkeys or any other primate living today. WE DO SHARE A COMMON APE ANCESTOR with chimpanzees. It lived between 8 and 6 million years ago." (emphasis mine)
---------------------

This is what most people use as a reference...don't be so picayunish...


Link: https://humanorigins.si.edu/education/frequently-asked-questions

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 12

if you have one ounce of honesty and decency, please stop. My post was very clear to people who know

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:27 pm on Dec 18, 2022
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I was talking about. The image has nothing to do semantics. We don't know the common ancestor looked like. They extinct before humans and apes. That image clearly reflects misunderstanding from the artist and misled so many people including Chris and you. But dishonesty is worse than ignorance.

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 13

From the Smithsonian.."WE DO SHARE A COMMON APE ANCESTOR..."...what more do you want?

Author: TyroneIrish (20426 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 11:38 pm on Dec 18, 2022
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just acknowledge the statement from a highly reputable source...and move on to answering my question...are you an 'Evolutionist" or "Creationist"?...not all that hard, unless you're somehow ashamed to reveal it.

Thread Level: 14

My post has nothing about Smithsonian. My post is about the iconic image The march of progress.

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 12:07 am on Dec 19, 2022
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Dishonesty is #1 enemy of science. Stop talking about science if you don't have honesty. Go back to talk about the dirty politics.

Link: https://forum.uhnd.com/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=2&msgid=111138

Thread Level: 15

There are several ways to tuck your tail and run...that's one of them...btw, are you a Creationist?

Author: TyroneIrish (20426 Posts - Joined: Oct 8, 2020)

Posted at 12:19 am on Dec 19, 2022
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(no message)

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 7

Are you an adult? Seriously!

Author: jimbasil (52634 Posts - Joined: Nov 15, 2007)

Posted at 10:44 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Jack, he is a banker
and Jane, she is a clerk
Thread Level: 8

Are you evolved from ape? Anyone who believe humans evolved from apes pls stop talking about science

Author: Eli (9555 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 11:21 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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starting from you. Misunderstanding science is worse.

Thread Level: 6

Were your religious beliefs assaulted here, Chris? Seems so....

Author: BaronVonZemo (59899 Posts - Joined: Nov 19, 2010)

Posted at 9:28 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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First of all lets get your simplistic and inaccurate generalizations out of the way with me:
wrt evolution, I have no problems. I think it explains many things, and it is the most solid theory. You probably assume that it somehow conflicts with my religious beliefs, but it does not at all. But I also understand that it is still appropriately referred to as a "theory" because it doesn't explain everything. Even Newtonian physics did not explain everything. Thank goodness there weren't liberals in power to shut down scientific debate when Einstein introduced his theories on relativity! What really appears to be the case is that YOU feel that your religious beliefs are being challenged by the questioning of aspects of evolution. You are SO insecure that you can't even engage with people who present the other side of things.

Now, it's laughable that you would place mRNA immunization shots in the realm of certitude as evolution. Again, you and your liberal brethren have opposed debate from the start - even back when there was not sufficient study available as it turns out from Big Pharma testimony in Europe.
As you know, I have never been an antivaxxer, but nonetheless, to the liberals here I am perceived as such because I do not share their religious zealotry about it nor do I share the willingness to buy in on all of the politically motivated, nonsensical recommendations such as Shut Down or general masking with innadequate maks/inappropriate usage . Personally, I think that we can do a lot better than the shots being given right now....but it is harder to improve things when we have zealots such as you who prevent rational discourse and scientific debate.

Global warming? (I assume you want the more generalized Climate Change so that you won't ever be proven wrong at any point, right?). Again, this is a religious issue for you. You can brook no debate, yet this is the softest of all sciences....sociology/psychology/climatology/etc.
My take of Climate Change is not whether it exists but on whether the proposed nonsensical strategies with political side benefits will make any difference. Again, your own zealotry prevents you from carrying on serious debate here.

That teacher should absolutely be expected to teach about the theory of evolution. But he absolutely should NOT be forced to lie about it being absolute fact that is fully settled.


This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 6

talk abount voting!

Author: Hank the Tank (9413 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 8:34 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Thread Level: 6

Michigan didn’t get the global warming memo today.

Author: MuskyTommy (3947 Posts - Joined: Feb 7, 2012)

Posted at 8:33 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Thread Level: 2

Can you specify the reference?

Author: Iggle (12614 Posts - Joined: Sep 14, 2007)

Posted at 5:32 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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Not sure what this refers to. Thx

Thread Level: 2

He's a racist who thinks he's funny.Basic civil science, with that combo the truth always comes out

Author: Frankx (5312 Posts - Joined: Aug 22, 2017)

Posted at 3:32 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

This message has been edited 1 time(s).

Thread Level: 2

I would think they could he fired for that.

Author: iairishcheeks (27165 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 3:27 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Thread Level: 3

Yeah. Several Supreme Court cases on teacher speech.

Author: Shadow_of_the_Dome (4618 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 5:35 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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Pickering balancing test is a covered in my most year law school curriculum.

Garcetti v. Ceballos Is more current.


Link: https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/596/garcetti-v-ceballos

Thread Level: 4

Thanks.

Author: Hibakusha (4668 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 8:30 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Thread Level: 4

Thanks, I agree with this statement.

Author: iairishcheeks (27165 Posts - Original UHND Member)

Posted at 5:57 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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“when public employees make statements pursuant to their official duties, the employees are not speaking as citizens for First Amendment purposes, and the Constitution does not insulate their communications from employer discipline.”

Thread Level: 3

Agreed.

Author: NedoftheHill (44666 Posts - Joined: Jun 29, 2011)

Posted at 3:30 pm on Dec 17, 2022
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(no message)

Evil preaches tolerance until it is dominant, then it tries to silence good.
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