Without a doubt if Biden or Obama had started bombing Iran indiscriminately and caused this economic crises, you all would be singing a different tune! Explain your cognitive dissonance please.
Why do you think it has limited benefits? Iran publicly states it wants us destroyed, and it was developing a nuclear weapon. The benefits to the American people seem obvious and substantial.
Why do you not support it, when you "no doubt" supported Obama's wars (against Libya, just for example...ELP had a good link below on this). There was no benefit at all to the United States in participating in that war. In 2004, Libya shipped its nuclear materials and equipment to the United States. After Bush's "if you are not with us you are against us" speech, they had basically become an ally in the war on terror. But, Obama attacked them anyway, which was contrary to the interests of the American people (and communicated to the world that our allies could not trust the US government to consistently stand by them...and maybe they should develop a nuke to keep us at bay, especially if Obama was willing to help pay for it in the case of Iran). Did you support the war on Libya which had no benefit to Americans, but you now oppose this attack which at least has a chance to benefit the American people?
I don't know if this "war" is right or wrong. I questioned the attack on Iraq in 2003, and I always said the war would be easy but the peace would be hard. I was right. But, once the president decided to move forward, I hoped for the best. That is how I feel about this "war," which has clearer benefits to the American people than the Iraq invasion.
well at keeping Iran from enriching uranium past 3.7% with expert inspectors on the ground visiting known sites for nuclear development...and using environmental detection methods elsewhere to verify no nuclear enrichment activities. All without a single bomb being dropped on a girl's school.
Per Rex Tillerson...Trump is a moron...don't support such proven 'Losers'...or risk falling into the same category.
So how was this JPCOA going to keep it in check when they were committed to developing one? And these inspections required giving the Iranians 24-day notice, more than enough time to hide whatever they needed to hide. Do you really believe if this agreement were still in place Iran would have given up trying to develop a nuclear weapon?
courtesy of reading your link, unlike you selfishly and childishly refusing to read Dr. Risch's paper.
I basically said:
1) Potential benefits of attack on Iran greater than any similar attack since 2002.
2) Obama did similar things for less potential benefits.
3) I hope for the best.
Are you hoping for the worst, so that you can catch me on point #3?
Potential loss of American lives? Potential instability to the region? Potential economic consequences? Potential terrorist plots against US targets and people? Potential alienation of our friends and allies?
Oh wait ... Obama did the same thing. No Ned. No President has been this reckless in using massive military power against a foreign sovereign with no strategic objective or end game and without Congressional approval.
Yes, let's just "hope for the best."
I'm not surprised.
The stuff you list applies to all attacks, even those by Democrats, so those facts are irrelevant since they apply to actions you support, and so cannot be used to argue against actions you don't support. You need a unique argument that applies only to Trump if you want to be intellectual consistent. If you are just a pure partisan, and you put party before country, then keep doing what you are doing. You can always continue to fly the flags of other nations outside your home.
Regarding the terror attacks you mention: As you know, Democrats are ensuring the terrorist plots by keeping DHS unfunded. So, I guess I'm supposed to bookmark your post???
This is not about politics Ned. It's not about patriotism.
It is about gross incompetence and reckless decision-making by the Commander in Chief. I also fault the Senate and House majority for not checking him. Cowards.
But, this is Trump's war. No justification. No defined objective. No legal authority. Those are three major strikes.
I guess you just want my posts to be longer. I'm flattered, but I don't feel the need to cover issues that are obvious or which are relevant only to pure partisans when I've already made my point.
failures in the area of Risk Assessment...sometimes referred to as 'Critical Thinking'.
Go back and read it as many times as necessary to fill that void.
that the lives and welfare of 330M+ Americans are afforded more than “Hope”…wouldn’t you agree?
...in spite of the fact that they have said that they want to destroy us repeatedly, year after year, for decades.
The Dems just want to hope; Americans deserve better, as you say, and Trump is giving them that. We may find out what was the best course of action eventually (mere Democrat hope vs. Trump action), but nice to hear you argue against the Democrats on this...even if you do so unwittingly.
is not "Hoping"...that's Doing...without bombing Iranian school girls and other innocent members of that country. BTW, I very much doubt that you'll find Trump's War meeting the criteria for a "Just War"...just saying...Oh, and Pope Leo recently told DJT to (I'll paraphrase) 'Knock It Off with the War Mongering.'
In case you're falling for any of the myths about the JCPOA, read the linked paper I earlier gave to Mark H...Note that the IAEA also uses environmental testing to assure that other "off limits" locations (e.g. Military Bases) are not involved with nuclear weapons development.
You should stop 'Hoping' that something good will come of Trump's Hope that Iran would capitulate right after Ayatollah Khamenei was killed...right now, you're 0 for 1...want to double down on DJT?
Link: https://armscontrolcenter.org/the-real-facts-on-the-iran-nuclear-negotiations/
The JCPOA was a non-binding political agreement that would have started phasing out last year...after Iran used the cash any way it wanted to use it, such as supporting Hamas and Hezbollah (it was fungible physical cash, after all). Even Saudi Arabia thought the JCPOA was a bad idea. The only people who trusted Iran not to have secret facilities were European and US leftists who have a soft spot for autocrats.
We just bombed them 7 months ago and declared victory and now we're back at it.
...by which I mean my questions regarding your position on Obama's "wars."
As for Iran, they were not hiding their nuclear weapon ambitions. Do you think they were bluffing?
You don't start a war over what a country might possibly do someday. Unlike the lefties here on the board (Ty is the most sycophantic) who never criticize their own, I call it like it is.
about we launch preemptive non-nuclear strikes against both countries and decapitate their leaders, since they are even greater threats than Iran?
As expected, Trump took total control of this Iran War/Excursion without seeking or listening to expert counsel on the risks involved and America is definitely going to pay an unnecessary price for his stupidity...the only question is How Much?
The Mid-Terms can't get here soon enough...
administration was already weakening on stances taken during the campaign.
Any foreign policy question can be solved with a simple Lindsey Test: If Lindsey thinks it's a great idea, it's not, and it's not in the country's best interest.
Now: 85%
The cult has fallen into line. The idea that this is splitting the GOP - despite some high-profile dissenters - is not supported by the evidence.
MAGA has no excuse for their contention. If we all have been paying attention, DJT was talking Iran since the '80s. He actually talked about Iran can't win a war against Iraq but they give the United States all it can handle with little pushback from any U.S. president. He talked about Kharg Island. Iran was part of his agenda and he made no secret of it. He's had threats from Iran on his life and the United States. You think "Death to America" is just a bumper sticker slogan? You know who didn't want this to happen? China and Russia, so there you go.
Trump would never get us into unnecessary wars, he said. A vote for Kamala was a vote for war.
Wonder where that guy went.
would happen. He must have firmly believed it was necessary.
so, since he's the only one who knows when bad news...like Worldwide Tariffs, or a military strike on Iran...will hit the Stock Market, he makes money even in a down turn...