with his drone. That about sums up the difference between the 2 presidencies.
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a) General McKenzie owned up to the error and shared a great deal from his intelligence reports...also, he repeatedly apologized for the lethal toll exacted on the victims.
b) Gen. McKenzie's team followed the subject vehicle for somewhere around 8 hours and received input from many intel sources on the ground before authorizing the strike...hardly an 'offhanded' or careless decision.
c) In context, there had already been a suicide bombing that cost several American lives as well as many Afghanis...the stress level on decision making was quite high and time was short with ISIS-K closing in and a firm deadline for the evacuation of U.S. personnel.
d) A mistake was made...acknowledged publicly...and with transparency.
In the Soliemani case...(see link below)
a) There was no evidence presented (even to the 'Gang of Eight' who normally are apprised of such actions) that demonstrated an urgent need for the strike to avert imminent attacks, as claimed by the Trump administration...no transparency...no public sharing of Intel (like Gen. McKenzie)...VP Pence said that the public would just have to accept the administration's word on it. (see linked article)...again, plenty of time for consultation...but not taken...not surprising for the impulsive Mr. Trump who alone could solve anything.
b) While Soliemani certainly deserved his fate (at some time), the potential for 'disproportionate' responses and escalation was not even considered in consultation with experienced and responsible members of Congress.
c) As regards the unfortunate fate of the airline passengers and crew of the plane shot down shortly thereafter...typical of the narcissist known as Trump, his comment on the downing of the airliner was..."It was flying in a pretty rough neighborhood,"...what a heart.
d) A very serious military action was taken that could have serious repercussions down the line...without any attempt to consult with experienced members of Congress, who are normally briefed...beforehand...like Obama did before the raid on Osama bin Laden...big, big difference (re: Afghani drone strike).
But you love Donald Trump...why?...that's a question for the ages...maybe your next hand wringing will shed more light on that.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/were-just-discovering-price-killing-soleimani/604705/
Link: https://youtu.be/UB4Yxp05LMw
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As in they're mostly nonsense offered as a smokescreen as to Biden:
a) McKenzie "owned up" on a Friday (naturally), September 17th, for a strike that occurred on August 29th. Military first tried to float that footage showed the vehicle was packed with explosives. Experts who viewed the footage knew there were no "secondary explosions". Military knew this in real time when they saw the strike. It was "owned up to" after reports of civilians killed could not be squelched and nobody bought the secondary explosion nonsense. Biden, of course, took immediate "over the horizon" credit.
b) 8 hours was ample time? In who's assessment? Yours? It clearly wasn't enough time to confirm that the poor U.S. affiliated aid worker was filling the vehicle with WATER...and that he was returning to his house packed with children. The decision was clearly not adequately supported. In all likelihood it was rushed to provide Biden with a success story in the wake of all his shortcomings.
c) There was a suicide bombing that cost American lives because of the botched withdrawal rushed so Joe could be out before 9/11. The absurd withdrawal strategy resulted in the Taliban controlling all areas up to the Kabul airport gates while the incomplete evacuation needed to continue. That lack of control opened the door to the ISIS-K attack.
d) A mistake was made...acknowledged publicly...in a Friday news cycle nearly 3 weeks later when it was clear that there was no way to hide it or mitigate it with misinformation.
a) One would hope/expe ct that the military would have acknowledged the error sooner...however...it's unclear as to how much backtracking and analysis it took to get a true understanding of what went wrong; I doubt it was in one day...plus it takes time to gain approval up the chain of command for a public disclosure such as what the video presented, as well as the presentation itself...could it have happened sooner?...I suspect it could...it's open for debate as to how much sooner.
b) A full workday of surveillance (8 hrs) seems significant to me, given the immovable deadline they faced...what's your recommendation? Was it actually enough?...No...would more time make the difference?...I doubt it...IMO the 'on the ground' Intel was faulty from the get-go...but what do I know...they could have even been "snookered" by ISIS-K into a made-for-TV debacle...hopefully, they'll figure out what went wrong.
c) Here's were we depart from reality...this was not "Joe's Plan"...as we've learned, DT wanted to get ONLY U.S. personnel out and he would have loved to do it before he left office, leaving any and all Afghani translators, etc. there...even May 1st would have been a bigger mess. Because of Trump's troop pull-down that left only 2,500 available for 'control' in the Kabul area only, the Taliban had the upper hand...also, as Biden's Intel correctly showed, ISIS-K was moving in fast, so 9/11 would no longer work...time was of the essence and hence the decision to strike a "potential" target...everyone in our military was under serious stress...thanks to Trump's rush to get out.
d) A mistake was made...and owned up to with much more than a perfunctory "Oops, my bad".
Now, what say you about Trump's action to take out Soleimani without consulting with a single member of the "Gang of Eight", or providing any documentation that supported his rationale?...was that 'good governance' and a model of Presidential behavior?...do you see any possibility that an irate Iran might have accidentally shot down a civilian airliner because of that anger?...seems to me that the plane had flown that route for quite awhile...without incident...why the missile shot then? He had all the time in the world to gain consensus on such a significant military strike...but never did...oh, and not much sympathy for the victims on that airliner either.
latest did nothing but kill civilians.
War is horrible, but anyone justifying this event is complicit in the horribleness. You should be ashamed.
What I'm responding to is the talk about a "double standard"...there is none...but for the original poster to imply that Trump was an example of proper use of force when it comes to drone strikes, is fallacious.
Your desperation in trying to bring DT up to normal human standards is palpable...and a fool's errand...can hardly wait for the next example.
There are morons who support Trump and morons who support Biden. Each group of morons think they're somehow superior to the other group of morons. But it takes a special kind of moron to defend Biden's drone strike that killed 10 innocent people including 7 children. Congrats, you're special.
you know that's not what happened...they followed that one vehicle (which was brought to their attention by on-the-ground intel) for somewhere on the order of 8 continuous hours. Other drone strikes in other parts of the country had been successfully carried out using the same team...somehow, this one was a screw-up...hopefully, they'll learn why.
Once more, my point is not to defend a mistake, but rather to convey the concept of an "accident"...the drone strike was not a callous act with no effort expended to make 'sure' that innocents would not be harmed...the general's lengthy account shows that was clearly not the cases here. Drone strikes were carried out before, and will be again...this is not a game of "perfect", but serious efforts are made to reduce...as close to zero as time and intelligence permits...the risk to innocent civilians. To deny this fact is disingenuous in the least...or willfully biased at the worst...so, do you acknowledge that significant (albeit insufficient) effort by our military was made to reduce risk to innocent civilians?
While we're on this topic...what is your judgement on Trump's single-minded take-out of Soleimani without any outside consultation (e.g. "Gang of Eight") that normally occurs (e.g. Obama's take-out of Osama bin Laden)?
BTW, IMO there is only one true moron...that's Donald Trump...and Rex Tillerson agrees with me.
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Plus I'd hate to get in the way of a good old fashioned froth! Might get some on me....
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Any of the most dastardly deeds committed by the Orange monster could be exactly duplicated by Biden and liberals and the media would move heaven and earth to explain why they're different and joe did nothing wrong.
Calls threatening foreign leaders? Check!
Blowing people up with drones? Check!
Kids profiting off dads job (although a lot of mud was thrown at Ivanka & Jared none of it was legit unlike the crackhead Hunter) Double Check?
Making stupid comments and having no grasp of facts? You bet!
Alienating allies? Joe's gotcha right here.
Frail odd movements suggesting mental or physical illness? Oh yes!
But ALL that is different dontcha know?!?
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Ty sliced and diced the assassination of a military target as the act if a madman while a president raining hot death on some second graders is a-okay! Well....we did apologize so there!
I mean it's just mind bending some times.
also take the time to view the video of Gen. McKenzie's explanation of what happened?...if so, did it appear to you that his team took a great deal of time and analysis trying to verify whether or not the strike was warranted?...I mean, 8 hours of tracking the subject vehicle and the occupants, with input from on the ground sources....something obviously got overlooked, but under the existing time and threat constraints, they did their level best to avoid a mistake...yet it happened...
As for Trump...he applied ZERO diligence in planning his attack...no consultation with the "Gang of Eight", unlike Obama going after Osama bin Laden...and ZERO empathy for the shooting down of an airliner that arguably would not have occurred had he not taken out Soliemani at that time..."Reckless" is a term that would apply here...could it have been DT's attempt to salve his envy of Obama and put a notch on his gun belt?
The more you try to put lipstick on that pig, the more you're going to get your suit muddied ;-).
btw, I'm hoping you'll start talking 'with' me on these issues, rather than seeking out your Buds on this board and talking 'about' me...but again, your choice...we can do this any which way.
The board when Soliemani was smoked. The professionals were pissed.
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