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Honest, Non-Inflammatory Question

hipND 4453 posts Original UHND Member
Posted

I have ridden the Mike Brey roller coaster, like most of us over the past several years: I wanted him gone after years of missing the tourney or first round losses. Then there was the Cocoon moment with the back-to-back Elite Eights. I believe he actually was a (slightly) improved bench coach, but not much. Now we've come full circle. This year's team would not have won the Bookstore title. Seriously bad basketball, shooting, spacing, chemistry, hustle, toughness....nothing good, really bad.

Here's my question, and honestly, I have always loved ND basketball (59 yrs), but really don't delve too deeply into the inner workings [recruiting etc], but just tune in and watch (and judge):

Did Brey get lucky with Demetrius Jackson, Zac August, Pat Connaughton etc? Did they find ND more so than Brey found them? I just don't know.

Now, two years into a renewed oblivion, I am convinced ND needs new blood at the head coaching position. I guess we have new hoop facilities, so there's that. ND pays up for top notch everything else, how about revamping the hoops program?

I welcome some enlightenment from minds more knowledgeable than mine.

Peace.

  • Level 1

    This might be an unpopular opinion

    Nigel Tufnel 8473 posts

    ...but I don't think it's possible to win without cheating, and I think that has a lot to do w/ our inability to land better players. College basketball has become like Lance Armstrong era cycling. The latest scandal underscores this. Case in point - Zion Williamson's dad asked Kansas for $100K, a 'job', and housing. Kansas was working to provide all that, and then Zion commits to Duke. If you don't think Duke gave him at least what he was going to get from Kansas, you are naive. UNC runs a fraudulent classroom scam for two decades, involving hundreds of student athletes, and receives no penalty. The LSU coach is taped saying he was going to make a 'strong ass' offer to a recruit, and he's publicly demanding to be reinstated (after refusing to answer questions from LSU!).

    Assuming we are not willing to cheat - and I don't think we are - I don't know that we can realistically expect a lot more than Brey. He's a good representative of the university and is widely respected amongst coaches and the sports media. And yes, his teams are often soft and play poor defense and are typically out-rebounded.

    I don't think ND really cares if it isn't competing for Final Fours. Brey was begging for a practice facility for the last 15 years before we acted.

    He's a good coach, but I wish we had a better coach.

    'I define fear as standing across from Joe Louis and knowing he wants to go home early.' - Max Baer
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  • Level 1

    Bear Bryant went 12-10-1 in 1969 and 1970

    MarkHarman 7990 posts

    Not comparing Brey to Bryant in championship regard, but my point is even good and great coaches have down times sometimes.

    Having said that, something about Brey is missing. He does a great job of getting upperclassmen to improve and usually has his teams playing better than the sum of their parts, but if we use Villanova and Gonzaga as our models, Brey should have done better by now.

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  • Level 1

    idiotic post, Mike has our full support, great coach just a rebuilding year with injuries

    DonMiller 3375 posts
    (no message)
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    • Level 2

      Idiotic response. Brey’s appearance suggests he thinks he is a tenured professor.

      (unknown user)

      He needs to finish with at least an NIT caliber team next year or the heat will be turned up. Deservedly so.

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    • Level 2

      Hyperbole. Mike Brey is a good coach.

      MAS 22834 posts

      He is not a great coach. His teams are generally soft and they don't play good defense. I used to get frustrated when an ND player would fail to stop the ball or give a poor effort on defense, yet wouldn't get pulled. Good coaches do that. It simply isn't and won't be a priority with Brey. He's focused on offense and some of his worst defensive players have been some of his best offensive players, like Luke Harangody or post-injury Chris Thomas.

      Defense and physicality aren't dependent upon getting great athletes. John MacLeod had far superior defensive teams than most of Brey's teams. To put it in perspective, 25 years ago, MacLeod had a walk-on from across the street at St. Joe's HS, Pete Miller, who often started and often matched up with the best opposing Big East players, like Ray Allen and Kerry Kittles. Walk-on Pete Miller, with all those physical limitations, was a far superior defender than anyone on the current squad. That's not a function of player talent or athleticism, it's about coaching and accountability on both ends of the floor.

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  • Level 1

    The stars aligned, most likely, those two years.

    MAS 22834 posts

    Year-in-and-year-out, Brey will have an average-below average defensive team that isn't particularly physical. That isn't the profile of a program that makes deep runs.

    On the flip side, he will graduate exemplary young men who reflect well on the university. It's become increasingly obvious that to win championships at the collegiate level, you must compromise those things. ND will not do that. I think Brey will be at ND until he retires.

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  • Level 1

    I would say....

    billybaroo 1534 posts

    Wait on the new recruiting class, if there is a new recruiting class. And, seeing how the freshman play as sophomores. That said, the talent level and physicality that separates ND and the top of the ACC is night and day. .500 next year in the ACC would be high expectations.

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End of conversation